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lei
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:51 am    Post subject: Why ??? Reply with quote

hi all:
i saw lots of articles and books and people are all saying linux(and unices) better than ms's windows, faster,effetcive, stable... But I really CAN't agree with those opinions.

take X as an example. u could see that X itself and all applications on it is really slow, comparing to windows. And, they eats so much memory, with just some poor functions.
for ex, on win2000, i opened several internet explorer window and several word 2000 documents, they all runs smoothly, and uses around 110mb memory. BUT, on a linux system, i open several mozilla window, one Openoffice(word) window, the speed is really slow.... and eats around 220mb memory !! So, i just can't do anything else.
Not only open office and mozilla, ALL other X applications are just as slow and eats much much more memory then their equivleant on windoze. And i found, that whenenver u run a big application, and then quit it, the memory is still occupied..

Some articles even say that linux is esp. good for lower-end machines, like i486, pentium. I really doubt whether they are talking about linux ?!


Does anyone else have the same feeling ????? or anyone knows why ???




yours,
lei
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Naan Yaar
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Documentation, Tips and Tricks forum is for:
Quote:

Unofficial documentation for various parts of Gentoo Linux. Note: This is not a support forum

This port does not qualify as such.

Moving to "Off the Wall".
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rac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Why ??? Reply with quote

I have no experience with Windows, but:

lei wrote:
And i found, that whenenver u run a big application, and then quit it, the memory is still occupied..

The kernel caches previously used disk pages in RAM, in case they happen to be used again. If the memory is needed for something else, it will be freed automatically.

Quote:
Some articles even say that linux is esp. good for lower-end machines, like i486, pentium. I really doubt whether they are talking about linux ?!

When some of us started using Linux, those were considered higher-end machines. They are perfectly capable of running Linux, although I agree with you that X can be a bit sluggish on CPUs of that caliber. Usually, however, choice of a sufficiently lightweight window manager can mitigate this.

Perhaps your frustration with your system's performance using Linux is caused by some unfortunate configuration decisions. If you would care to ask some more specific questions about how to speed up your system, perhaps some of the people here will try to help you.
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lei
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

hi:
first of all , thanks for ur reply.

i am using a celeron 633 on i180, with 256mb ram, 6.4g harddisk.
Though it is somewhat old and slow, but they are all doing fine on windoze.

it now runs on a gentoo linux 1.2, with Xfree86 4.2, mozilla 1.1, gnome 2.0, openoffice 1.0.

Quote:
If you would care to ask some more specific questions about how to speed up your system, perhaps some of the people here will try to help you.


ahh sure.
First, Why mozilla takes around 8 seconds to startup ? and why it eats 30.8mb with 3 window opened ?
Next, in the system monitor, it shows that process "X" uses 92.9mb ?? what does it mean?
what just simply a X server uses so much? and it seems that it grows when I open more X applications ?

Finally, why all X apps tends to freeeze and crash SO often ?!!! Well, I admit that the linux system itself almost never crashes, but gtk & qt applications craash & freeze so often, even more than win98. mozilla often crashes on a page with java applet or flash animation or complex javascript, openoffice crashes on opening word2000 documents. KDE panel freeezes whenever i tries to change something on it, X multimedia system crahses when i tries to clicks too fast..........a lot lot of cases.
Well, some says that that's not fault of linux, but of all those applications. but i really doubt why apps under windoze doesn't crash so often? does that means authors of windose applications are mostly better than linux app authors ?? Or does all those crashes & freezes doesn't really related to linux itself ?


I amm relaly eager to know the answers, cuz I love open source, and really wanna to find some reasons to support it.
Thank you in advance!!!



Yours,
Lei
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scottro
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a fair question. Even Mr. Robbins, the chief architect of Gentoo has commented upon this---X vs. the graphic interface in Windows.

However, a few points.

You're actually talking about X, which, to be specific, isn't actually part of Linux, but something made by a different group of people. Not to mention OpenOffice--I'm not a big fan of it actually--it comes under the heading of one of those things I use from time to time, because it's a nuisance to open up a Windows box when I'm doing most of my work in Linux.

The desktop is not yet Linux's strong point--it is constantly improving, but yes, you will sometimes find that you have to spend a great deal of time figuring out how to do something that only takes a few moments in Windows--and, something that Windows might even do better.

However, that is only one side of the story. For instance, we run some things on Windows NT Servers. Sometimes, there is a necessary patch or update. In many cases, this involves rebooting the server. As there are many people using resources on the server, some who won't be at their computers, this involves calling several people, telling them to tell others, etc. This is a major thing. On a Unix server, there is almost never a need to reboot.

I am not going to say that Linux is not as good a desktop as Windows--it will really depend upon what you're doing. X, to oversimplify, runs seperately from the operating system, while in Windows it is more heavily integrated into the O/S. This has the bad point, as you've seen, especially with some of the heavier weight window managers, of slowing things down. It has the upside of, if something goes wrong in the graphic interface, you don't necessarily lose everything else you're doing. In Windows, if your screen froze up, and you have that Word document open, you've lost it.

However, if you stick with Linux, and find yourself getting interested in the configuring, and other things you can do, you will begin to see its power. Much of its power is at the command line. One quick example--we have a bunch of graphic files stored on a Samba server. One girl had misnamed a few hundred of them. To go through it in Windows, she would have had to find each one in a window, right click and rename them one by one. However, I was able to write a quick script--more or less the equivalent of typing two or three commands, that went through all the files, found the misnamed ones and renamed them properly. It is times like that that one appreciates Unix.

For someone coming to Unix from the MS or Mac World, aspects of it can seem unintuitive, and doing what you are used to doing in Windows, such as Word documents, web surfing and email can seem clunky. However, you might find yourself, after playing with it awhile, preferring one of the text email clients like mutt, which is quite powerful.

It really depends upon your needs. Also, keep in mind, intuitive is what you're used to doing. Show someone an MS O/S if they've never seen a computer, and see how surprised they are that you turn it off by going to the start button.

I realize that you're talking about performance more than anything else. While, at times, Linux can match or outperform Windows even in the Gui interface department, Open Office is probably not as good as Office. However, also keep in mind that Windows (again, this is an oversimplified explanation) preloads some of these things such as IE or Office, making them start more quickly, but also using resources that could be used for other things. If you're doing, for example, a bunch of graphics work at the same time, you might notice this.

FWIW, I actually find that opera, running with the much lighter weight Fluxbox desktop is probably as quick as IE.

If you've read this far, I guess I would sum it up by saying that for a Linux desktop to be as convenient and fast as an MS desktop is still not a simple thing to achieve--it can be done but takes knowledge and work. On the other hand, I can burn a CD in Linux, while doing a variety of other things--with MS, on the same box, I pretty much have to finish burning the CD before doing anything else

Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as why you still have memory taken up when you exit a program, it is because it is just cached. if you go and open that program again, it will start up alot quicker than the first time, and if your system needs more memory it will get rid of some of the cached things it is not using.

As for speed, I have a Athlon 1600 and my Gentoo 1.2 install starts up about as fast as win2000 on my box. I run Gnome2 cause I found KDE to be not to my liking, but kde does take a while to get going even on my box, it is just cause there are a lot of things that kde likes to have loaded for use.

Right now I am using about 200MB of ram, with 2 mozilla windows, evolution and gnome2 all going, and I have been playing RTCW for the entire day, without restarting so some of that memory is just cache laying around. if you run a WM like fluxbox or icewm, you will see that you will use much less memory than running a full desktop environment, like kde or gnome.
As for apps crashing, well I have not experienced any crashes with Gentoo that weren't my fault, such as halting important processes or messing with hardware that linux was trying to use. You may want to check to make sure that you have your kernel compiled correctly and that your ram is seated nicely, as that may cause some issues.

With 256 MB of ram, you shouldn't be seeing a slow down with mozilla and oo open, unless lots of stuff is going on in the background. My friend's 600 Celeron does fine with a bunch of services going and playing around at the same time.

Maybe give some specific instances where you are having trouble and people will be more than happy to help you out, we are all friendly.

Just a few quick things to add to the linux is better than windoze argument:
OpenGL being faster in Linux. Free (both senses of the word). Cool people who don't treat you like an idiot noob even if you are, most Linux people just want to help, cause everyone started as an idiot noob at one point, and no one likes to be treated as a moron.
I hope that you find some good in your Gentoo install, but if not, maybe try Red Hat or Mandrake or Suse, since they are boxed sets, you may have a better expierence with them, and then maybe you will come back to Gentoo.

Andrew
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lei
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:52 am    Post subject: Ah... Thank you Reply with quote

....
Ah...i guess i understands what you mean.

You are right. command line is more powerful.

I just shouldn't expect an os to be wonderful on every thing.

And I believe X would be better.

Thank you two again for taking the time.



Yours,
Lei
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottro wrote:
that for a Linux desktop to be as convenient and fast as an MS desktop is still not a simple thing to achieve--it can be done but takes knowledge and work. On the other hand, I can burn a CD in Linux, while doing a variety of other things--with MS, on the same box, I pretty much have to finish burning the CD before doing anything else

I find that using a well set up Linux box can be just as or more powerful and easy to use than windows.
I run mozilla / galeon for web browsing, gtoaster or xcdroast for cd burning, gnome2 for desktop, evolution for email and organization, abiword and gnumeric for office apps, xmms for music, UT RTCW Quake3 Tux Racer and many others for games, and gimp for art / imaging.
Everything is very well organized, and in its place, and I have yet to have a crash on my newest install of Gentoo (1.2).
Although everyone and their Grandmother knows Windows, I think that for new people purchasing a computer, starting with a well setup Linux box would probably be better for them.
Granted that I may be slightly biased, but no matter where you look, you will find biased people.

Andrew
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh--you're not gonna get me into defending MS in this forum. :)

Note--you said a well set up box.

There are other issues too--assuming that you want to be aboveboard, MS Office is in the $300-400 dollar range. On the other hand, I do have to admit that at present, MS is probably better at handling Asian character sets (though they use Shift_Jis, which is a whole other issue.)

AFAIK (and I could be wrong) the Gnome office apps you mention aren't compatible with MS Office documents--in a business environment, for better or worse, one needs the ability to transparently open such documents--one can tell their supplier, hey, don't send me this Word garbage, but one can't say that to a customer.

As for people starting out--the trouble is again compatibility with their friends. My wife, for example, when her laptop was stolen, found that most of her friends couldn't open Japanese emails she sent them (using Mozilla for hotmail) (We're not talking very computer literate friends either--apparently her sister wound up paying someone a few hundred dollars to show her how to turn on a computer.) Talking to her sister about changing viewing of encoding frightened her.

A lot of it also depends upon what you enjoy. I enjoyed finding out about mutt and learning to use it well. (It's a poor example, as I could have emerged sylpheed and gotten something as easy to configure as OE, but this is as example). On the other hand, I'm not big on scanning, and when sane didn't work out of the box, I didn't feel like searching for two hours to find out the one or two lines I probably had to add--I said freak it, for the rare times I have to scan, I can reboot.

CD burning--I find I prefer the command line. There's a great page written by a friend on burning CD's via command linehere.. I'd used Nero in Windows, then began using FreeBSD's builtin burncd. However, as I began pretty much using Gentoo as my desktop, it became more of a nuisance to reboot into FreeBSD. (There are also, of course, various point and click CD burning programs, but I don't know them--this is another example of where I didn't mind spending effort to get it working. It's definitely a case where, though it took a bit more research to do it than it would have in Windows, it does it better--that is, using far fewer resources)
Quote:
Granted that I may be slightly biased, but no matter where you look, you will find biased people.


Except for me of course. :)

Where it used to be a practical matter--I would shrug and say, well, MS is better for this so when I do this I'll use it, MS's policies make it more and more of a political decision--as well as financial. :) Aside from printing Japanese (printing is another thing I don't find fun to set up, so am content with functional) and the aforementioned scanning, I almost never use MS anymore. Even got my wife a Mac--figured learning it would be good for the resume, was interested in its running on BSD and (you married ones will understand this) her friend had one and she thought it was cute.

Y'know, though of course, this may change when Linux becomes even more popular, one other thing for getting Grandma the well set up Linux box---she doesn't really have to worry about viruses--and lei, of course this doesn't mean that Linux is invulnerable, simply that MS is the most popular target--for instance, there's thousands of MS viruses but under 100 for the Mac.

Of course, there are security problems with Linux as well--for a VERY funny goof on it, see this bbspot article

Oh well, I'm getting sleepy. :)

Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the (bad?) habbit of opening tons of programs and never closing them after I've used them...
Because of this I even use the imho slow and bulky kde3 because you can go to another windows by clicking on the bar with opened programs, try that in fluxbox ;)
I'm using opera, having atm more then 15 different sites open, I have kdemail on, some shells, knode, xchat, konqueror, kate, openoffice, derive with wine, anjuta, idle and gimp...
Not a single memory problem, really! (1300mhz with 512 ram of wich only 141 mb is used atm!!)
And that wouldn't be a problem in windows either...

However, I wouldn't even want to try that in eg mandrake or suse!!!
It all depends on how you've configured your box I guesse, and i'm still quiet newbish so you don't have to be a linux veteran...

The only things I hate about linux that are better in windows are:
- Photoshop (I really don't like the gimp)
- Printing (waaaaay too complicated... I've read so much about it and I stil don't understand it :? - I do have it working locally now (I have no idea how I did it but it involved emerging a lot and a bit of luck) but network printing with samba isn't too easy...
- Everything is actually too complicated, you have to read waay to much man pages for simple things, linux can only become popular by making everything more gui and user friendly like. Now you have to install seperate programs that act as the gui of the real program. I love config scripts too (that's why I hate kde, all the options are on different places, and I don't think you can achieve anything with config files here...) but to start out a gui is useful, nobody wants to learn samba just for sharing a drive or something, or learning the whole printer system simply to setup your printer... Mandrake and RedHat are making progress, but nobody likes the rpm system either :)
- All distros have their config files on other places, there should be a standard...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lei:
you're running gnome 2. It's purrty, but slow as crap. Try fluxbox, you may like it better. That will give you a lot of free ram there. Try Opera. Its faster than Mozilla (and IE, imo). I don't use oo except when i need to turmn in somethig for school. You may ant to try abiword. It claims to support .doc as well (i don't know how good it is). Its so much faster than OO. Or for prsonal stuff use a text editor like nedit. That should fix preformance issues.

Flux
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Haven't rebooted in a while so quake 3 is in cache.
~256mb

That's all i ever use. i bunch is cache too.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottro wrote:

Note--you said a well set up box.
AFAIK (and I could be wrong) the Gnome office apps you mention aren't compatible with MS Office documents--in a business environment, for better or worse, one needs the ability to transparently open such documents--one can tell their supplier, hey, don't send me this Word garbage, but one can't say that to a customer

(you married ones will understand this) her friend had one and she thought it was cute.

Abiword does have compatibility with ms office, my girlfriend has office aXe Pee and she sends me stuff and I can open it in Abiword, although I know that Gnumeric doesn't have good / any excel support built in, but that is ok, cause I don't really use spread sheets all that much.

I understand you very clearly, hehe, and I am not even married. "I like that color, lets get that one." :lol: lol

I would recommend though that if you are running a slower machine to go with gsfgf's recomendation and run flux / icewm / some other light weight WM and to run a lighter browser / email. Slypheed is a very nice email program, and I used it extensivly for about a year last school year cause Evolution was pissing me off, but now I got Evolution to run well, and I have the extra processor cycles (1.4 ghz of them) so it runs pretty quick.

As for Linux running well on older machines, this doesn't really mean the graphical aspects of the OS, but I was successful in running Red Hat 7.0 on my P166 with Gnome 1.4 and being able to do some Gimp work on it with little or no slow downs to the machine, granted this was 2 years ago, but still, with enough ram, and the right things installed you can have a kick @$$ light system that will blow the speed (cough!) of windoze away.

Andrew
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scottro
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'know more than Word compatibility, I need Excel compatibilty. Any Abiword type Excel programs that people have used successfully? (I haven't done any searching yet, I've just taken the lazy way and used OpenOffice when necessary)

You're right though, I should definitely install Abiword for .doc stuff.

Thank you--sometimes I miss the obvious.


Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squanto wrote:
Cool people who don't treat you like an idiot noob even if you are, most Linux people just want to help, cause everyone started as an idiot noob at one point, and no one likes to be treated as a moron.


You're talking about 'RTFM' Linux here? I find much of the linux world to be populated by complete assholes. This forum is one of the only places that I've been able to find with a low jerk quotiant.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few experiments made in the interim.

Emerged Abiword--couldn't get Japanese.

(I know, I'm the one who brought Japanese into this, but, let's face it, it's a necessary thing for some people, including the sorts of companies that might hire me).

Made a Japanese document in word, saved it on the samba share--neither Abiword nor OpenOffice could read it.

Conversely, however, made a Japanese document in OpenOffice. MS word 2000 could read it--Mac Office X couldn't.

Just some idle observations.

As for therobot's post--I assumed Sqanto was talking about this forum. And, even here, they will tell you search first. There are two sides to this--I'm going to give a few urls from my own pages, if that's ok. (They're in the sticky links anyway, so maybe it is ok)
I see the beginner's point--he's totally at sea. He asks what seems to be a simple question, and is told RTFM.

However, when I've spent hours making what I consider a newbie friendly faq and, on three beginner oriented mailing lists, this faq is mentioned in the welcome message, as well as on the lists' web pages, and I see a question from it on one of these lists almost daily, it makes me feel that my effort was wasted. Once a person told me I should organize better, (although it is loosely organized) as they felt they could have skipped the netiquette section--I was nice that day, and trying to avoid arguments, so I didn't mention that they broke almost every rule in it--they'd top posted, left over 100 lines of previous posts, cross posted, and had the subject line of help. :) I've said that I'll organize it when two weeks go by with no questions from it (and no cross-posting) on any of these three lists.

There's also, if you'll forgive my pushing my own pages a newbie survival guide
that I've written. It's premise is that it's fine to be a beginner--what the gurus ask is that you make an effort. I've yet to see someone flamed for saying, "I've looked at the man page, and it's a bit over my head."

I don't consider myself an elitest--shucks, on this list I think it was my last one or two posts that lifted me from n00b to Tux helper--and that isn't even a great criterion, as it's based on volume--but, one reason I made that faq is because I got tired of answering the same questions time after time. I've been called elitest because I have a little text file that I'll sometimes include in a post to one of these lists--to the effect of this question is answered in the list faq. A link to the faq was included in your welcome message to this list,and here's the url. Please read it. Otherwise, the option is, to type time after time, well, here is how you install a bz2 file.

If someone is asking how to install a bz2 file, obviously they're new to Unix or Linux--sending them to the tar man page or bz2 man page is a bit harsh--those pages are a bit obscure to the beginner. Actually, the bunzip2 page sends you to the mini howto which gives a bunch of esoteric uses of the command--in the minihowto is how do I untar a bz2. A one line chapter--RTFM. I can certainly see such things turning the beginner off to Unix, but if he finds it interesting, he will learn. On the other hand, I have in that faq, the simpler answer to untarring and installing bz2 files. :)
(As an aside, if on a Gentoo install, you look at man tar, you'll see a grouchy thing that one should see info tar, and they're just adding this man page because they're tired of hearing it's missing. The info file is more understandable to the novice)

Ok, I think I'm done now. Anyway, to sum up the above long-windedness, often, the reason someone is told to RTFM is because, even judging their level, they've shown not ignorance, but laziness.

Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that you should search first, but most of all, atleast post in the corerct forum section.
As for all the cool FAQs that you have made (I will probably download it), have you thought of submitting any of it to the Gentoo website? Since lots of people could then easily access it when they have Gentoo related problems and what not.
Just an idea.
As for me, I am still a n00b, even though I have used Linux for 2 years, and 1 year as my only OS on my desktop, I still ask silly dumb questions that I get a RTFM response to.
I also can't spell well, which doesn't help me :oops: .
And now that we have gone completely off topic.... what were we talking about again? X eating memory and crashing?
Lei, you got any more questions? ask away! :D

Andrew
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 486-66 linux box running my domain for a few years. It was an e-mail, ftp, web, php, quake and mysql server running vBulletin as well as firewalling about 50 clients behind a T1 line.

Of course i wasn't gonna try to run X on it, but I wouldn't try to run windows NT on it, either.

My new home firewall is a P2-350 with 128 megs of ram that plays my TV, DVDs, mp3's, dhcp, dns, postfix, X and WindowMaker. Loading up X with WindowMaker takes like 5 seconds on this machine, but you can be sure I wouldn't even attempt to put 2k, exchange and proxy on that type of box.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

splooge wrote:
I had a 486-66 linux box ... e-mail, ftp, web, php, quake and mysql server running vBulletin as well as firewalling about 50 clients behind a T1 line.

You crazy!

Though, if you have enough RAM, you could actually do all that at a reasonable speed. However, I would suggest leaving Quake off. :D
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:14 am    Post subject: user error Reply with quote

i have a 750mhz duron with 256mb ram. it's a nice stable box. openoffice takes about 14 seconds or so to load, though (7 seconds if it's already in memory).. browsers load in 3-6 seconds.

as for your memory consumption, i have no probs at all with ram.. making my computer start thrashing is hard work. gotta keep loading new apps really quick-like... even with openoffice open.

if you want a low-end workstation running linux i'd suggest a p100 w/ 32mb of ram.. just make it a thin client. works great for me. (http://www.ltsp.org) of course, 3d games dont run on a thin client.. but you can't hardly play 3d games on a p100 with windows anyway..

and as for things crashing, my box is rock solid.. perhaps your hardware is flaky or not supported well? bad ram? linux is finiky about those things.

i think a lot of this guy's problem is that he doesn't really know what he's doing yet.. although i admit that he has a point about linux apps being slow..
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lei
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So supprised to see so many posts! Sorry that I didn't answer any of it cuz i think that's was an end after my last post, til today happened to went back and view it again.
Well, firstly I doesn't really tends to speaks for ms. but We HAVE TO admit that something really runs better on windows.
for ex, we could have a PII 266, or a celeron 300 running office 97/2000 smoothly, and internet explorer, which is very suitable and common for daily use in offices of a medium/small company,at least in China. But, I really don't think it is possible for that kind of machine, running a X(whatever the wm may be), and a openoffice or any replacement, and also a internet explorer equivalent, smoothly, and stable. Isn't it ?
On the other side, as a server, Windows is no match to Linux.

BTW. FreeBSD seems to be a lot faster then linux, including X and console apps. Why?
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brendaniabbatis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:47 pm    Post subject: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

Quote:
Much of its power is at the command line. One quick example--we have a bunch of graphic files stored on a Samba server. One girl had misnamed a few hundred of them. To go through it in Windows, she would have had to find each one in a window, right click and rename them one by one. However, I was able to write a quick script--more or less the equivalent of typing two or three commands, that went through all the files, found the misnamed ones and renamed them properly. It is times like that that one appreciates Unix.


While I thought overall this post was as courteous and correct a response as they come, I frowned when I read this paragraph. I come from the OS/2 world, and I find the bash command line frustrating at times, though not nearly as much as the DOS one. This particular example hit home, because renaming multiple files is something I have had to do a number of times over the years. In OS/2 it is done like this:

Code:
ren disk*.dsk disk*.img


Easy enough, the wildcard means all files that match the first parameter have their filename changed to match the second parameter, preserving the characters contained in the *. But this same command using mv under Linux does not like wildcards in the second parameter and returns an error.

At this point one is left to write a script, but since it is faster to rename the files one by one than to learn a new script language, I have never bothered.

So while scripting might be a nice feature of Linux, it is also a feature of OS/2, and can be made to work even in Windows. The command line in Linux is unquestionably powerful, but this example doesn't convince me, and the easier learning curve on OS/2 can actually make its command line more powerful than Linux for some users.

/me hopes portage-ng will work, one way or another, for UnixOS/2. :P


Last edited by brendaniabbatis on Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stormy Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think XFree86 is slow and crappy -- and it most certainly can be, then wait until FDO's XServer matures. Based on comments from some of the ballsier Gentoo Forum members, XServer is well on its way to being a kickass windowing system.
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Anime_Fan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

brendaniabbatis wrote:
Quote:
Much of its power is at the command line. One quick example--we have a bunch of graphic files stored on a Samba server. One girl had misnamed a few hundred of them. To go through it in Windows, she would have had to find each one in a window, right click and rename them one by one. However, I was able to write a quick script--more or less the equivalent of typing two or three commands, that went through all the files, found the misnamed ones and renamed them properly. It is times like that that one appreciates Unix.


While I thought overall this post was as courteous and correct a response as they come, I frowned when I read this paragraph. I come from the OS/2 world, and I find the bash command line frustrating at times, though not nearly as much as the DOS one. This particular example hit home, because renaming multiple files is something I have had to do a number of times over the years. In OS/2 it is done like this:

Code:
ren disk*.dsk disk*.img


Easy enough, the wildcard means all files that match the first parameter have their filename changed to match the second parameter, preserving the characters contained in the *. But this same command using mv under Linux does not like wildcards in the second parameter and returns an error.

At this point one is left to write a script, but since it is faster to rename the files one by one than to learn a new script language, I have never bothered.



Code:
kami@kami test $ emerge ren
[... Wait 3 seconds, watch lines fly in front of you ...]
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.bak  file2.bak
ren -d "file?.bak" file\#1.img
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.img  file2.img



Think you could live without OS/2 now?
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Red Nalie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to nominate this topic for
"Topic with the worst title"-award
_________________
Many people call me Linux-freak, I just see me as a freak who uses Linux :)

i'm a little n00bie short and stout, here is my nickname here is my SHOUT!!!1 when i get all flamed up hear me SHOUT!!1 ban me forever, kick me out
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Anime_Fan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Nalie wrote:
I would like to nominate this topic for
"Topic with the worst title"-award


Hey... Don't bash on the name of topics created more than a year ago.

And congrats on reaching 500 posts.
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