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| Should OTW return? |
| yes |
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29% |
[ 10 ] |
| no |
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47% |
[ 16 ] |
| no because redhat |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| yes because redhat |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| bad actors |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| small number of deplorables |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| ban me |
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14% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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 Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, I think I now recall reading that at the time.
It was snowflakery.
I posit that it would have been more fair to maintain the policy of requiring a login to read OTW and to have set up a competing subforum called ITSS where it wasn't required.
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Leonardo.b
Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2020
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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"Fair", like "justice", doesn't mean the same thing for every people.
Was it fair when Romans raped Sabine women?
For Romans yes, it was... |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Leonardo.b wrote: | | "justice" |
quote.
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Leonardo.b wrote: | "Fair", like "justice", doesn't mean the same thing for every people.
Was it fair when Romans raped Sabine women?
For Romans yes, it was... |
Seriously though, that is precisely why ITSS would have been the correct solution.
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wanne32
n00b
Joined: 11 Nov 2023
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Leonardo.b wrote: | | Was it fair when Romans raped Sabine women? |
raptae is not rape. According to the legend they where allowed to go back but stayed on their free will. At least most western countries wouldn't consider that rape if a woman gives consent but her parents/grandparents do not. You could argue that it was statutory rape since the fact that none of them was married more or less implies that they where way younger than 18. But defining statutory rape in a society where marriage between ~12-16 were the norm and having sexual encounters even earlier not uncommon with modern day U.S. ages makes little to no sense. Even the U.K does not call it statutory rape after the 13th birthday. It was "only" an abduction. – What was the topic? |
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kgdrenefort
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Sep 2023
Posts: 243
Location: Somewhere in the 77
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 7:10 am Post subject: |
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The topic was why OTW would never come back.
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21817
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Instead, it seems plausible that this topic needs to go to OTW. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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It does actually appear that I've accidentally(?) managed to recreate otw in the form of a single thread. So we're 50/50 in the polls because the yes and the ban me votes are both correct. Half of them are wrong (that's something to do with Carmen Basilio which I can't quite correctly recall).
EDIT: It's been pretty civil overall so far, just like the first two otw's.
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8943
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| mrbassie wrote: | | the ban me votes are both correct. |
I think these were mostly interpreted as "ban *you*" votes. If you agree, you can request as much in the usual Forums Feedback subforum. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | mrbassie wrote: | | the ban me votes are both correct. |
I think these were mostly interpreted as "ban *you*" votes. If you agree, you can request as much in the usual Forums Feedback subforum. |
Yes, that was the joke.
EDIT: There are four of them and asturm.
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54411
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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mrbassie,
I think this topic has become an excellent example illustrating why OTW should not return.
Everyone,
Please steer the topic away from its growing likeness to OTW or it could become the first new topic in OTW in over three years.
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | mrbassie,
I think this topic has become an excellent example illustrating why OTW should not return. |
Why?
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pietinger
Moderator
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4392
Location: Bavaria
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ian.au
Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 596
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| pietinger wrote: |
Even as a non-native english speaker, I sense an underlying aggressiveness. |
That's interesting. I don't detect any aggression in this thread.
Irony, satire and sarcasm aren't the easiest of concepts for non-native English speakers to grasp, and I don't doubt that similar misinterpretations lubricated the wheels of demise for the original forum.
That said, these days there are plenty of reactionary native English speakers who don't (or choose not to) understand the difference either.
OTW was mostly the former, with an occasional aggressive disagreement. OTW2.0 was actually pretty benign - which probably hastened its demise tbh.
It was fun, but not a big enough part of anyone's life that 2.0 was resurrected by anyone, nor has anyone in this thread suggested they'll be doing it.
So the idea that FGO is going to say 'ok, we'll host it for nothing on our infra again' is somewhere between fanciful and insane.
IIWII
Last edited by ian.au on Sun May 19, 2024 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3180
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, c'mon guys, if want to kill this topic at least say the real* reason instead of making things up.
asturm is just being asturm, and mrbassie shrugged it off in a hilarious way. Not very aggressive.
* I'll help you: OTW is not coming back because somebody not involved wanted to take it down and has enough influenze to actually do it.
Ta-da!
Edit:
| Quote: | | So the idea that FGO is going to say 'ok, we'll host it for nothing on our infra again' is somewhere between fanciful and insane. |
If removing OTW was motivated by cost, it would be understandable, but given the other provided reasons and general trends regarding moderation literally everywhere from Reddit, to FB, to YT to Twatter, to in-game chats (including _private_ games), to credit card companies forcing Hollyweed onto anime, I'm calling it an excuse.
Also, I don't think the actual cost of OTW was specified, and as we know actually deleting OTW was deemed too dangerous (hell, I'd hesitate to press delete forum too), resources taken by OTW haven't been released.
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3399
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2024 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Like I said before in this thread, while OTW "didn't have rules" it still needed moderation.
Personal attacks, selling illegal goods, linking to other illegal sites... All needed to be removed.
Nobody wanted to moderate OTW, so it was closed. Sorry. Moderators are lazy. Although I weren't mod back then. I still wouldn't want to go trough OTW and search for any illegal stuff... Which I believe was rare, however.
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ian.au
Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 596
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2024 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: | | Quote: | | So the idea that FGO is going to say 'ok, we'll host it for nothing on our infra again' is somewhere between fanciful and insane. |
If removing OTW was motivated by cost, it would be understandable, but given the other provided reasons and general trends regarding moderation literally everywhere from Reddit, to FB, to YT to Twatter, to in-game chats (including _private_ games), to credit card companies forcing Hollyweed onto anime, I'm calling it an excuse. |
I wasn't talking about hosting cost in terms of dollars, but even if I was, the moderation trends of the (exclusively commercial) sites you're quoting is irrelevant. I'd assume the dollar cost of the sub forum wasn't particularly high.
| szatox wrote: | | Also, I don't think the actual cost of OTW was specified, and as we know actually deleting OTW was deemed too dangerous (hell, I'd hesitate to press delete forum too), resources taken by OTW haven't been released. |
The cost was more that the legal entity who runs the infra didn't think the Gentoo brand should necessarily be associated with some of the content / views / opinions expressed in OTW; then probably someone spoke to a lawyer about the risk of hosting that content.
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| szatox wrote: |
and mrbassie shrugged it off in a hilarious way. Not very aggressive. |
Glad someone got the reference.
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 794
Location: over here
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Spiritedly, within the spirit of idle curiosity, I, spiritidly and idly plucked the robust threads of this the not quite forbidden concept. I have now read for some time, many of the responses to this, my, idle, simple, posited, enquiry. I have endeavoured to do this both Idly, simply, outwardly and above both of the above, enquirily. There have been several responses, both honest, enquisitive and less so (I'm doing Peter Cooke badly. He had hair).
It occurs to me that xaytoux (or whatever his name is, sounds like a cleaning product to me at any rate) is at the very least, very much leastly the least dishonest participant willing to at least, whether dishonestly, leastlenly whether or otherwise, commenteriat upon the aforementioned
Anyway, That's my argument against my own question.
Putin made me not be funny
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3399
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 10:33 pm Post subject: The end |
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This topic had its moments. Now the direction is nowhere. Locked.
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Chiitoo
Administrator
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 2595
Location: Here and Away Again
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a little late to the party, but even if we wanted to, I'm not sure we could make OTW return due to bug 926246 [1].
That being said, I don't think any of the forums team wants to, one big reason being that additional cost of maintenance (in human hours).
If someone could convince the Gentoo Council (et al.) to bring it back (and get the infra-related bugs fixed), perhaps then it could return in its former glory(?), where moderation would be exceptionally lax.
Personally I think OTW 2.1 or OTW 3.0 or etc. would be a better fit (and probably greater than 0 more likely to happen in this timeline).
1. https://bugs.gentoo.org/926246
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