GNOME will drop X.Org session support

Dominique_71

They will make a 3 steps move: first switch, then disable and then remove all xorg-related code.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/GNOME-MR-Drop-X11-Session

Thomas Adam wrote on #fvwm, and I think he is right:

grknight · Retired Dev Joined: 20 Feb 2015 Posts: 1663

The GIMP author comments on the MR basically saying: "Be feature complete on Wayland compared to X11 before considering this. It's not there yet"

Dominique_71 · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject:

Dominique_71 · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject:

Anyway, wlroots seam very interesting for building a wayland composer that will have a good X11 compatibilty, and maybe allow us to run software like fvwm into wayland: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots

Dominique_71 · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:07 pm Post subject:

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816

I can't be the only one who has a "cold dead fingers" stance on Xorg. I keep hoping that someone forks it or otherwise takes over some level of maintenance. Gnome support doesn't affect me.

My opinion of the freedesktop.org devs in general is only slightly better than the systemd dweebs frankly.

Tom

Zucca · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:45 pm Post subject:

ChrisJumper · Advocate Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 2390 Location: Germany

Dominique_71, its because Xorg is full of security bugs. Wayland may be too and will have fixes in future, but handle the Network and D-Bus Layer for security in a modern way. And this is what other say.

I am hold in a secret universe where some say its too old code and too verbose to Network attackers. And on the other modern way (Windows, MacOS, Android..) the System integrated snitching APIs, collecting telemetry Data... or just Words uesed Code while autocorretion of words typed in. So we have snitching systems.

Not sure what is best, however i trust Wayland...

flexibeast · Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:20 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:15 am Post subject:

The problem with xorg, is that it's grown willy-nilly over the years, and nobody really understands all of it, and the interrelationship between the various pieces.
Thus they are afraid to do to much tinkering to it. It's kind of like pickup sticks

The only way to properly clean it up is to rewrite vast portions of the code, a massive undertaking.
And that would take time and very few developers are interested in doing this.

Thus wayland ....
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tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816

It's a sad state of affairs for sure. Literally everything I read tells me that Wayland is still a buggy piece of crap. The idea of giving up X11 forwarding alone almost makes me physically ill.

I use a very minimal desktop with fluxbox. I suspect that's the polar opposite of anything that the jackasses as freedesktop.org give a crap about. In fact, the ONLY issues I've had in recent years were because of bullshit they they've pulled with GTK-3 etc. It's important to keep in mind just who these folks are...and that they don't give a crap about anything but Gnome:

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/tag/gtk3/

But I digress. This...sucks.

EDIT: It also kills me how everyone's buying into the "X11 is full of security issues" thing, yet we're supposed to believe that a piece of software that old enough to get a driver's license and still sucks is clean as a whistle? But again...I digress.

Tom

Naib · Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:16 pm Post subject:

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Naib · Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:22 pm Post subject:

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816

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flexibeast · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:03 am Post subject:

flexibeast · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:17 am Post subject:

Leonardo.b · Apprentice Joined: 10 Oct 2020 Posts: 297

I've read a paper about Xorg internals, and it is very complicated.
Wayland aims to be simpler, so I feel positive toward it.

NeglectedRudderPug · n00b Joined: 04 Oct 2023 Posts: 12

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21644

It does not appear to be a joke. Based on some bad experiences I had with Ubuntu's systemd, I think the issue is that someone decided it would be a good idea to use a meaningless splash screen by default, hiding all kernel log messages so that the system can show a logo and a spinner during startup. Later, someone else realized that having log messages is actually useful. Rather than admit that splash screens are bad, this tool is an attempt to work around the problem by exposing some subset of what you would have seen if the system had never forced a splash screen in the first place.

usr99 · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:34 pm Post subject:

another UNIX WARS (tm), now it's on the display server.
before it was System-d vs SysV, before gnome 2 vs gnome 3, what next? break more standards which worked well before.

for me It'll end with gnome-X and gnome-Wayland forks in the middle