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figueroa
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:38 pm    Post subject: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

Noted in TLDR newsletter:

Quote:
Firefox version 115.0 was released on July 4, but I'm not celebrating. I'm concerned about a new "feature" in the release notes.

Certain Firefox users may come across a message in the extensions panel indicating that their add-ons are not allowed on the site currently open. We have introduced a new back-end feature to only allow some extensions monitored by Mozilla to run on specific websites for various reasons, including security concerns.

Link to full post: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/2023/7/1.html

What do others think about this?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

figueroa wrote:
Noted in TLDR newsletter:

Quote:
Firefox version 115.0 was released on July 4, but I'm not celebrating. I'm concerned about a new "feature" in the release notes.

Certain Firefox users may come across a message in the extensions panel indicating that their add-ons are not allowed on the site currently open. We have introduced a new back-end feature to only allow some extensions monitored by Mozilla to run on specific websites for various reasons, including security concerns.

Link to full post: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/2023/7/1.html

What do others think about this?

I am using librewolf and I don't know if this will be added there too. Hope the librewolf guys will patch that out.
What other browser is worth using?
Firefox has gone political for a long time.
Palemoon can hardly be called maintained.
Surf needs webkit-gtk.
Everything based off chromium is bloated.
Using an outdated browser is out of the question.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo maintainers already disable some Mozilla misfeatures (such as Normandy) at install time, if I recall correctly. Hopefully, either this is built on one of those (and therefore already blocked) or it will be added to the list in due time.
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pietinger
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

stefan11111 wrote:
What other browser is worth using?

Maybe this can help for further decisions ?
https://xgqt.gitlab.io/spywarewatchdog/articles/index.html
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

Quote:
Certain Firefox users may come across a message in the extensions panel indicating that their add-ons are not allowed on the site currently open. We have introduced a new back-end feature to only allow some extensions monitored by Mozilla to run on specific websites for various reasons, including security concerns.
This seems oddly timed given Youtube's recent announcement of blocking users with adblock and of course Firefox having insufficient revenue without Google's payments to keep regulators at bay.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
stefan11111 wrote:
What other browser is worth using?

Maybe this can help for further decisions ?
https://xgqt.gitlab.io/spywarewatchdog/articles/index.html

Best out on the list seems to be icecat, but the ebuild is outdated.
Palemoon development seems more active that I thought.
Code:
# USE="gtk3" emerge -1av palemoon

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
Dependency resolution took 1.07 s.

[ebuild   R    ] www-client/palemoon-32.2.1::palemoon  USE="gtk2 jemalloc optimize threads -av1 -dbus -debug -devtools (-gtk3) -jpegxl -necko-wifi -official-branding -pulseaudio -valgrind" CPU_FLAGS_X86="sse sse2" 0 KiB

Why is USE="gtk3" forcefully disabled and how can I turn it on?
Also, I find no way to add extensions to palemoon.
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gorg86
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just speculating here but this might be a preparation for Apple removing their browser restriction on iOS. That would make it possible to install addons and block adds, they can't have that ofc.
Mozilla got compromised a long time ago, the best alternative is Librewolf imo. Surprisingly the Librewolf devs use duckguckgo by default which is a friggin joke. If they do not "understand" what's wrong with that, you have to ask yourself what else they are missing. The last time Mozilla showed their ugly rotten demonic face was, when they banned the Dissenter addon simultaneously with Google. There was a modified chromium browser by Dissenter after that, now the project is dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
I'm just speculating here but this might be a preparation for Apple removing their browser restriction on iOS. That would make it possible to install addons and block adds, they can't have that ofc.
Mozilla got compromised a long time ago, the best alternative is Librewolf imo. Surprisingly the Librewolf devs use duckguckgo by default which is a friggin joke. If they do not "understand" what's wrong with that, you have to ask yourself what else they are missing. The last time Mozilla showed their ugly rotten demonic face was, when they banned the Dissenter addon simultaneously with Google. There was a modified chromium browser by Dissenter after that, now the project is dead.

What else to expect when Mozilla gets 400000000 dollars every year from google.
Even just typing that number seems absurd.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
Surprisingly the Librewolf devs use duckguckgo by default which is a friggin joke. If they do not "understand" what's wrong with that, you have to ask yourself what else they are missing.
What is wrong with duckduckgo? Is your complaint about the quality of the results, the quality of the presentation, or the backend business practices of the operator?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDG has been handing out money to more than questionable organizations since it's early days https://duckduckgo.com/donations
~1-2 years back they collected data on which search results their users clicked on by default with their own link-forwarder. After some outcry they removed that.
Their "privacy browser" allowed third party cookies by Microsoft to track their users because DDG made a deal with them without telling anyone. When it came out Gabriel Weinberg released some BS statements.
There are a few other things I can't remember right now, but yes their search results are crap, too.
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorg86

DDG doesn't even have a Linux browser, but I love their Android browser. The DDG search engine provides results that are quite fine, and it's browser pugins are a useful part of my overall privacy and security toolbox.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Palemoon can hardly be called maintained.
Actually, it got much better.
It did have problems rendering some js-heavy websites, but it caught up to the competition a few months ago (or maybe was it a year?).
The only thing I miss now is hardware support for video decoding. It works in FF, but I can't enable it in PM. Well... I'd rather live with it than FF forcing me to restart immediately after every single update.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
There are a few other things I can't remember right now
Possibly their de-prioritizing some results. This isn't an invitation for a discussion, but anyone can correct me, I believe it was related to news around Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I could be misremembering.

gorg86 wrote:
but yes their search results are crap, too.
I think the overall quality of search results has degraded as a result of SEO and SEO oriented content. I was actively avoiding Google in ~2012. By 2014 I had stopped using their search. Bing wasn't sufficiently "better" for me to justify switching which vampire I allowed in. At that time, I would occasionally think DDG results weren't great, so I'd try Google. Google's results were not better than DDG. I don't remember the last time I used Google search, but I read comments form time to time about how many ads or sponsored results are on the first page of results from Google. That is at least similar to my experience from ~2014.

Whatever the cause of the decrease in search effectiveness, I wonder if a semi-curated catalog / directory would help: Popular "big" sites; excluding those big sites; then perhaps below that line. That's not unlike what Yahoo! tried, but search was effective enough way back then to make that approach more cumbersome (at least in my opinion). Maybe that curation could combat SEO and grifter copycat sites.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figured out how to enable USE="gtk3" and how to install addons.
Palemoon seems slimmer than librewolf/firefox and actually maintained.
Any downsides to switching to it from librewolf?
Scrolling seems slower.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disable this function by set this in about:config

extensions.quarantinedDomains.enabled = false


There are pros and cons about this. For newbies its more secure to not add 100 apps to firefox and run banking 2fa with the firefox. So its ok if all extensions are disable on well known banking domains.

However there may be a misuse by advertisers or homepage owners for big companies and they try to disable David's slingshots on Goliath's blog page..
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2023 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisJumper wrote:
So its ok if all extensions are disable on well known banking domains.
Hopefully they include a means to disable it in the UI and allow manual exceptions as they do with other features. With justification of a bank being able to do it, "every" website will use the feature. If security were the motive, they'd also disable javascript.

Thnaks for the about:config setting!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally found out how to fix some issues with palemoon, one for which I will open a new thread here.
Got rid of librewolf, llvm, clang and rust. That's (way) more that half of my install.
Only downside so far is that whatsapp web doesn't work and there seems to be no way to get it to work without at least patching palemoon.
I'm willing to live with that, given that I got rid of all the bloat I mentioned above.
Thank you all for showing me that there are decent alternatives to mozilla's beast that don't involve chromium or selling my soul to someone.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefan11111 wrote:
selling my soul to someone.
You may not want to look into who owns whatsapp.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
stefan11111 wrote:
selling my soul to someone.
You may not want to look into who owns whatsapp.

I would use mailing lists, forums and irc for all my internet communications.
Sadly, most of the people I talk to on whatsapp don't even know what those are.
Most of them don't even care that facebook has been proven to steal and misuse data and ever run psychological experiments on it's "users".
When I bring up switching to something more open, most people say they have nothing to hide or that they just don't care.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is Palemoon working for you stefan11111?
For me it's unusable, adblock is poop, it is extremely slow and many websites don't render properly. :(
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
How is Palemoon working for you stefan11111?
For me it's unusable, adblock is poop, it is extremely slow and many websites don't render properly. :(

I do notice a slowdown if I have a lot of tabs open.
I have ublock origin, noscript and https everywhere working fine.
Websites render properly.
The biggest problem so far is missing support for webrtc, which means no microphone support.
However, I remove rust, clang and llvm, so I'd say it's worth it.
Also, I like that old firefox ui.

If I really need to, I can bite the bullet and temporarily allow dbus through my package.mask and install firefox bin.
Now that I think about it, is there a way to get whoever builds firefox-bin to build it with USE="-dbus" too?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefan11111 wrote:
Now that I think about it, is there a way to get whoever builds firefox-bin to build it with USE="-dbus" too?
As I read the ebuild, firefox-bin downloads from archive.mozilla.org, so I think you need to contact someone at the Mozilla project to have this change made.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Firefox 115 remove Mozilla control of extensions Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
stefan11111 wrote:
What other browser is worth using?

Maybe this can help for further decisions ?
https://xgqt.gitlab.io/spywarewatchdog/articles/index.html


I'd like to thank both figueroa and pietinger for bringing this to my attention, spywarewatchdog seems to be based.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google/Chome(ium?) seems to include that control of extensions too. :/

The Internet take a shift... even if it did not fit the topic. Did you read Mindf*ck by Christopher Wylie?
Reboot is the wrong word but we need to enhance and Support Linux on Smartphones and establish Apps or some easy secure way to use the old Internet for free too. But its likely to be solved without a browser. Mostly like the fediverse or with RSS or Mailing List tools. We as community need this to be easy to use in future and with some reliability.
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