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SoofMan
n00b
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 69
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 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | Why would I be engaging with you if I didn't want to help? Please also note that everybody else in this thread had their problem resolved (and the issue was always junk in world file / stale settings in /etc/portage). |
I also had the problem resolved.
I am just wondering how you guys are going to get this thing sorted in December, when, let's say, 10% of important packages have still not updated to OpenSSL 3.0 and 1.1 is still hard-masked (or removed).
Last edited by SoofMan on Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1721
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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No, you've worked around it. There's nothing more for us to do "by December". Everything in tree is compatible with OpenSSL 3. The 10% figure is entirely wrong.
Let me know if you actually want help. |
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SoofMan
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | Everything in tree is compatible with OpenSSL 3 |
OK, I will post my logs in separate thread. |
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GoofyX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | Hi!
Could you either delete that PHP_TARGETS line (so you will use the default, which is currently php8-1), or remove the php8-0 bit from it? A world upgrade then depclean should then work OK. |
Could you please explain the reasoning behind the masking of PHP 8.0? It's a perfectly supported by upstream (granted, with security fixes, but IT IS supported) and the only one stable slot left is 8.1. Not even 8.2. It's been discussed that 8.0 cannot build with openssl 3.0, so you could prevent using the ssl flag with this specific branch (8.0), instead of masking it all together.
There are developers that need both 7.4 and 8.0 versions. Going that hard way is not a solution. You could at least keep 8.0 alive until its official EOL time.
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SoofMan
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Banana
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1478
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| GoofyX wrote: | | sam_ wrote: | Hi!
Could you either delete that PHP_TARGETS line (so you will use the default, which is currently php8-1), or remove the php8-0 bit from it? A world upgrade then depclean should then work OK. |
Could you please explain the reasoning behind the masking of PHP 8.0? It's a perfectly supported by upstream (granted, with security fixes, but IT IS supported) and the only one stable slot left is 8.1. Not even 8.2. It's been discussed that 8.0 cannot build with openssl 3.0, so you could prevent using the ssl flag with this specific branch (8.0), instead of masking it all together.
There are developers that need both 7.4 and 8.0 versions. Going that hard way is not a solution. You could at least keep 8.0 alive until its official EOL time. |
Please have a look here: https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php
It is not EOL, but will in 2 months. Also 7 is EOL long ago.
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SoofMan
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GoofyX wrote: | | [Also 7 is EOL long ago. |
I am going to have to Compile PHP 7.4.x manually I guess.
I will still need it in the future to update the old projects I am working on to PHP 8.x. |
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GoofyX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't care it will be EOL in 2 months. The point is what it is NOW. And now, it's an officially supported version from upstream. By your logic, 7.4 should have been removed last year in 2022, but it was just recently masked. maybe we should scold the Gentoo devs for not removing it earlier, but I'm grateful (and I'm pretty sure there are others too) that they didn't.
This is irrational. In my opinion, it should be unmasked.
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grknight
Retired Dev
Joined: 20 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Technically, PHP 8.0.X does not have to be masked entirely just yet. Just its ssl USE flag since there is no openssl-3 support for the openssl PHP extension.
Edit: Note that the ssl USE is tied to the openssl functions as well as providing SSL support to ftp, imap, mysql, and phar extensions.
Last edited by grknight on Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1721
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| GoofyX wrote: | | sam_ wrote: | Hi!
Could you either delete that PHP_TARGETS line (so you will use the default, which is currently php8-1), or remove the php8-0 bit from it? A world upgrade then depclean should then work OK. |
Could you please explain the reasoning behind the masking of PHP 8.0? It's a perfectly supported by upstream (granted, with security fixes, but IT IS supported) and the only one stable slot left is 8.1. Not even 8.2. It's been discussed that 8.0 cannot build with openssl 3.0, so you could prevent using the ssl flag with this specific branch (8.0), instead of masking it all together.
There are developers that need both 7.4 and 8.0 versions. Going that hard way is not a solution. You could at least keep 8.0 alive until its official EOL time. |
Upstream didn't care about OpenSSL 3.x at all for <8.1 and have no intention of fixing it. And it's EOL 2 in months anyway. So it's not really perfectly supported in reality. |
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GoofyX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | Upstream didn't care about OpenSSL 3.x at all for <8.1 and have no intention of fixing it. And it's EOL 2 in months anyway. So it's not really perfectly supported in reality. |
It's supported with security fixes (which is pretty big deal anyway). Making it build with openssl 3.0 would mean it would be fully (bugs and feature related) supported.
In any case, for anyone else needing PHP 7.4, 8.0 and openssl-1.1, there's the stefantalpalaru overlay, the packages are there.
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... Morpheus: What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If you 're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain... |
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SoofMan
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| GoofyX wrote: | | In any case, for anyone else needing PHP 7.4, 8.0 and openssl-1.1, there's the stefantalpalaru overlay, the packages are there. |
Thanks, this will make things much easier than building it myself. |
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sam_
Developer
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 1721
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| GoofyX wrote: | | sam_ wrote: | | Upstream didn't care about OpenSSL 3.x at all for <8.1 and have no intention of fixing it. And it's EOL 2 in months anyway. So it's not really perfectly supported in reality. |
It's supported with security fixes (which is pretty big deal anyway). Making it build with openssl 3.0 would mean it would be fully (bugs and feature related) supported.
In any case, for anyone else needing PHP 7.4, 8.0 and openssl-1.1, there's the stefantalpalaru overlay, the packages are there. |
In reality, I'm not sure that really makes sense for many users if you can't run it with a supported OpenSSL version. But you're the admin. |
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SoofMan
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Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| sam_ wrote: | | In reality, I'm not sure that really makes sense for many users if you can't run it with a supported OpenSSL version. But you're the admin. |
We don't need to run it anywhere critical.
What we need it for is to update all the super-old PHP7.x and PHP5.x projects to PHP8.x by running old and new version next to each other in order to compare whether they work exactly the same.
It's really damn hard to do properly otherwise you know. |
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sam_
Developer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, yes, I get that bit. I'm just giving why I don't consider it fully supported either. It's reasonable to want a copy around for that. |
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Banana
Moderator
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1478
Location: Germany
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GoofyX
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 84
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Banana wrote: | Is gentoo now blamed for beeing up to date  ? |
This is not what I'm saying. It's just there are cases where old versions are needed, because there are legacy projects, or projects that might run on newer PHP versions, but need testing. In both cases, you need time and money to do that and sometimes you don't have these both. Or use docker, but I must learn it first.
I also maintain a few Debian 11 servers that run on PHP 7.4 and 8.0. They work fine and I'm sure that at least for another 1-2 years I will have support for these old versions, security wise, by the Debian team.
My vps runs on PHP 8.0. If I sync today, I'm in trouble. I will have to test the sites that they indeed run in 8.1 and upgrade (they will probably do, but the need for test is there).
A couple of months ago, PHP was slotted with 7.4, 8.0 and 8.1 and you could switch back and forth easily to test legacy projects. After today, there's only 8.1 (8.2 is still in testing). The slots are powerful and I really like them, but such actions as masking old "unsupported" versions ruin their purpose.
The PHP lifecycle sucks. Every version is only supported for 3 years. There is no LTS version and after the 3-year period, you are literally f....d, you are on your own. They must really do something about it.
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Hu
Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21918
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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PHP 8.1.0 was added to the Gentoo tree in November 2021. You have now had ~22 months during which you could update to php-8.1.x and test it out. As noted earlier in the thread, php-8.0.x is on its way out. By your stated timeline, it will be end-of-life by the end of the year. You should plan to be off it before end-of-life occurs, so that if a last minute problem delays your migration, you still have time to complete it before end-of-life.
Old versions are masked as unsupported when they are infeasible to support. In this case, PHP upstream elected not to patch php-8.0.x to work with new OpenSSL-3. Therefore, any system that wants openssl-3 needs to remove <php-8.1[ssl]. If PHP upstream had backported support for openssl-3, or if openssl-3 was drop-in compatible with openssl-1 such that php upstream did not need to backport anything, then it is likely the Gentoo maintainers would not have placed this mask at this time.
Given the bad PHP lifecycle, perhaps you should stop using it and find a better supported language. Gentoo is well known for tracking upstream, and part of that is that you should not expect the Gentoo maintainers to provide post-end-of-life support for projects. Sometimes this will be done if necessary to avoid a disaster elsewhere, but there is no policy promising it. |
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