How better emerge

[pingtoo]

Hi,

Today is Chinese New Year's Eve, I feel I can start a new topic for chat about my current thinking of emerge the command. kind review my past year experience.

There are two parts of my thinking about the emerge,

Part 1, Using python as development language for the emerge application.
Part 2. emerge command options somewhat misleading.

1. Using python for emerge application.
First please understand I have nothing against python the language, it very good general programming language and it could be good fit for develop emerge the command. However it demonstrated one bad sign for a system management tool. It change too frequent. even worse it demonstrate the language compatibility issue when major version upgrade.

I think system management tool should not be bound to a development tool which may create system update problem due to time progress. I accept that an older version may only perform lesser functions than most current version, but it is very difficult to accept due to time progress my older version system manage tool need to update before it can do anything. Yet that same tool need to bring the runtime update which sometime create circulate problem.

I remember when I start with Gentoo the emerge was just bunch of bash scripts. I have no concern use interpreter language, but I think we should choose a more stable, less changed language for the emerge. Could it be possible use a mini-python to replace the full python?

2. emerge command options somewhat misleading.
May be it just me being English as second language, I found some of emerge option name sometime lead me to believe it will do one thing but it actually does something else or it does not apply to the context where I think it will happen. For example most recent post I apparently mis-suggest using '--keep-going' in where a emerge action still in resolution discover phase.

Or for example I am using binpkg for my primary desktop system, however I have multiple USE flags for some packages in binhost, this create a condition where some place I may not have udev or static-libs vs none static-libs therefor I have multiple instance of same version package. on my desktop system when I update I got prompt told me some packages were ignored then another message stated that if I set the option to 'y' it will silent the message or force use the binpkg? (i.e. --binpkg-respect-use, If set to 'y' Am I force use binpkg's USE flag?)

I wish if emerge can have docker/git command alike context argument, for example I wish there are emerge build {--optionA|optionB|optionC ...} where those options are build context specific and another emerge install {--optionA|--optionB|--optionC ...} where options are install context related.

With a context command this possible give a break point where additional maneuver can be perform (for example break the result into smaller segment for incremental process, instead a failure and need to redo everything from beginning again).

P.S. Please forgive my bad English. If you not sure what I mean please ask, I will try my best to explain.

[fedeliallalinea]

For first point something is moving, not to change programming language but to make it less dependent on change.

The second point of discussion is a bit more complex. Using emerge in a deep way implies that you should know some mechanisms of the ecosystem (understand the use flags, the various phases of emerge,...).
So far I haven't found any poorly documented options, just read the portage man, I found it more difficult to navigate through all the options, there are really a lot.
Adding more for the compilation/installation phases seems to me to complicate things even more but that's my personal opinion.
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[pingtoo]

First, Thank you for taking time to read through my ideas,

[figueroa]

I understand the questions, but I don't agree.

1. Generalities don't seem to be meaningful here. Specifically, any high-level language is subject to change that may cause future breakage. The objective is to not let change break portage for the user. To the extent possible, eliminate the rough patches, and where unavoidable provide a proper migration path.

This hasn't been a regular occurrence in the last 15+ years, and the recent 2021 python migration(s) were decently handled. They were mainly tedious. It is the responsibility of the user to stay reasonably informed, keep their systems reasonably up-to-date given the pace of upstream development and closure of security issues, and to read and heed the news when developers and maintainers use that channel to communicate with us.

I am a user with long experience but no training and extremely limited programming knowledge or abilities. Yet, I'm satisfied. Change in language for portage is way above my pay grade and position. I don't care.

2. Portage language and syntax. I don't find anything exotic with portage (emerge) commands or syntax. Specific commands require one to read and follow instructions, and translate the meaning into some understanding of the outcome. I am more or less bilingual and I understand the problem. Portage is complicated, and most of it is foreign to me in ANY language.

Emerge syntax is similar to many other complex Unix/Linux programs. Take tar, for example, compared to emerge. One enters the name of the executable, the command, the options, and the object. So in tar:

[pingtoo]

Thank you for participate in this conversation.

I am sorry but I don't understand what does this mean?

[Leonardo.b]

[figueroa]

[pjp]