Anyone tried "The Zero Install system"?

allucid · Veteran Joined: 02 Nov 2002 Posts: 1314 Location: atlanta

I remember downloading the rox pager awhile back and it used zero-install (or something similar). It confused the hell out of me (mainly because i didn't expect it

)

Trejkaz · Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:17 am Post subject:

From what I've seen of rox-filer I'm quite impressed. If I weren't so entrenched in KDE (integration == god) I would probably be using ROX. :-)

Dr Gonzo · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:

Rox is pretty cool. I also tried out zero-install, and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed.

Rox needs some polishing, but the feel is a lot like MacOS X. OS X has application directories as well. All of the libs are in standard locations, but any new applications are usually directories. Up at my lab, there's a dual G5 box with 10.2 Panther where I don't have admin access. For a while, I thought I was quite encumbered -- I didn't know much about Macs. However, I downloaded the Mac version of Emacs and compiled it. You know what it did? It made me an application directory. Double click it, and Emacs pops up. I was friggin flabbergasted. Then, I realized I could pretty much download anything I wanted and run it from my own Applications directory in my home dir. Cool stuff.

ROX seems to be the only one doing this kind of stuff for Linux, and I really like the idea. Their stuff isn't really as customizable as I'd like, but I think they're still really working on functionality. If they make progress, I'd say that the system is the future of Linux...
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SPW · Guru Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 318 Location: Lëtzebuerg

I tried installing zero-install with the ebuild posted on bugs.gentoo.org, but I get the following error:

TheCoop · Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:52 am Post subject:

something like this would work brilliantly with bittorrent, as everyone who has already installed a cached copy could serve it up using bittorrent, even if they arent actually running/downloading it...
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redog · n00b Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 35

I'm so impressed. :!:

shouldn't the ebuild be split in two though?
1 for lazyfs and 1 for zero-install?
Not sure wth lazyfs is or does but its required.

planetsheinker · Guru Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 403 Location: Israel

Guys, does somebody knows of a ROX+zeroinstall based Distro?

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

I really want to try it, but doubt that there is enough packages that it will help. Can anyone attest to this?

planetsheinker · Guru Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 403 Location: Israel

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

How about some money?

Seriously, don't you think a distro based on something this intutiave, with some engineering could take out Mac OS X and maybe even longhorn? How big could this be?

EDIT: It would make so much sense if every sf.net and freshmeat site would package for zeroinstall. I'd dl it just for that.

planetsheinker · Guru Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 403 Location: Israel

I second this, Goya13 :-)

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

Thing is, they don't have a donation button.

Speaking of a distro: it wouldn't be too difficult. Simple GTK and QT themes to match Rox's theme. Make it all pretty with some nice icons. Use FVWM to have auto transparent non-focused windows, have different choices for a toolbar, and use zeroinstall for new applications. Esp. you can upgrade core packages with a simple double-click. Offer udev out of the box, with a few core apps precompiled: ooo-ximian, firefox, evolution, etc. Patch all of them to use rox to get files.

And BOOM: There is the ultimate linux distro.

Stuff you'd need to program:
FVWM Configurator, no one wants to edit FVWM. No n00b does, anyways.
Patches to use rox for files.
+ more.

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

Turns out they have a donation button.

Check this out: wrappers for non-rox stuff!
http://roxwrap.sourceforge.net/

I think this will be a serious competitor soon...

alkan · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject:

Nice concept if there was richer application database available.

I've hacked two ebuilds (and patches) for the latest zero-install, it is working perfect on my system with 2.6.9 kernel (with occasional crashing). ebuilds has been written in an hour, Therefore they may not be perfect and they are open to improvements. :oops:

http://www.engr-sys.com/lazyfs-linux.tar.bz2
http://www.engr-sys.com/zero-install.tar.bz2

First you need to:
create a user zeroinst
mkdir -p /uri/0install
mkdir /var/cache/zero-inst
chown zeroinst /var/cache/zero-inst

Then emerge zero-install

To run automatically at boot:

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

hey can you give me the results of
"ls /uri/0install/roxwrap.sf.net/"

epall · Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:54 am Post subject:

ls: /uri/0install/roxwrap.sf.net/: Input/output error

alkan · Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:20 am Post subject:

same here

ls: /uri/0install/roxwrap.sf.net/: Input/output error

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

sorry guys

try this:
"cd /uri/0install/roxwrap.sourceforge.net/apps/"

" ls -a "

epall · Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:35 pm Post subject:

Desktop Development Tools Games Internet Multimedia Office README System TODO Text Window Managers

Goya13 · n00b Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 59

that got me all warm inside.

wow, thats pretty cool. i need to get it now.

do yall use this on a regular basis, or do you compile stuff?

planetsheinker · Guru Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 403 Location: Israel

gvg100 · n00b Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 12 Location: Lyon - France

i think there already is a distro based on rox + zero install but in very early stage. It's called Rox OS http://roxos.sunsite.dk/.

planetsheinker · Guru Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 403 Location: Israel

djh-world · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:53 am Post subject:

Wow!

That sounds absolutely amazing.

Although, for some reason I'd still prefer to use emerge.

One thing that strikes me however, (unless I'm misunderstanding the WHOLE concept) is the fact that this would be useful for "try before you compile" type of situations. You know, the time where you want to see what <inset software name here> is like before you take the plunge and compile it.

A very nice concept indeed, I will be watching this thread/this project with anticipation for it's future in the Linux world.
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Arioch_bdv · n00b Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 2

I wonder what he will do about not-file data ?
Such as GConf registry. Map it all to files????

And what is to application like GUI control for some daemon ? How will it say user to pre-install required daemon and start it ?

As well, i'm afraid to install an appliction, leave tosome small village with not internet - and find that cache had expired and the only part of application that is working is Help/About.

Indeed, binary packaging provokes to download more than needed. But such a lazy downloads will provoke to download far too little. How can i tell 0install to download and install today all the functionality i will use tomorrow beeing offline ?

For always-online p2p community it is perfect (but those apt's can be extended for some p2p transport too). For usual desktop user now it is needed to be enhanced, though the ideas are interesting, but still t it little more than proof-of-concept.

RPM scripts exists for those installation actions, that can hardly be limited to regular file operation and are hard to be made formal an codeable. I am not familiar with Ports (and always meet a lot of sarcasm from one BSD-fan mate

but i think it also have informal installation scripts, run as root. So what is the most security flaw of repositiories ?
1. Installation needs some actions, that cannot be formalized.
2. That means some special program (script) is needed to make them.
3. There is no formal method to control what program makes indeed.
4. So wee need full-trust (repository) and full-grants (root)

RPM's that need only to install some files do not contain those scripts.
Make a way to install them without root privileges - and much part of security value is gone.

PS: i wonder, why he developed that lazyfs ? Or, if he was first, why tmpf was born? :-)

PPS: mapping URI ds to DNS always seemed to me unreliable, good for prof of concept but not more. That 'not found' about roxwrap.SF.net is funny :-)