Zig vs Rust 2023

gso321 · n00b Joined: 02 Jan 2023 Posts: 15

Which language would you rather see more used in practical code (kernel) in 2023, zig or rust and why?

eccerr0r · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:18 am Post subject:

Neither, write code correctly by design in C/assembler.
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Banana · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:30 am Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:30 am Post subject:

eccerr0r++
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stefan11111 · l33t Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Posts: 922 Location: Romania

C5ace · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Zig vs Rust 2023

Ionen · Developer Joined: 06 Dec 2018 Posts: 2732

fwiw zig is closer to C, generally doesn't make much sense to compare it to rust -- but kernel-wise I guess it'd be easier to integrate with the rest of the C codebase, not that I particularly care to see it used.

As a packager I just don't want things to get messier with weird build systems and multiple toolchains requirements though

In case of zig I believe it breaks old code more often than rust right now and haven't really settled down too, there's been talk to slot the compiler because of that.

pietinger · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:00 am Post subject:

mike155 · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:31 pm Post subject:

GDH-gentoo · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:05 pm Post subject:

stefan11111 · l33t Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Posts: 922 Location: Romania

pa4wdh · l33t Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 815

Neither.
I think that especially a kernel should be one language (+ some asm if required for very low level stuff), and rewriting everything to either Zig or Rust doesn't make sense.
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eccerr0r · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:25 pm Post subject:

Agree with the sentiment for C++ - main reason why I did not include C++ is because kernel/driver software must be optimized to the bone - fast, minimized, and efficient. C++ with object overloading can carry a lot of unforeseen and unneeded overhead that should not be in a kernel or driver, at best they should only be in userland code.

Yes security is an issue. Correct by design is up to the person writing the code. That is not to say if someone has a lint finder to post process C/assembly it shouldn't be run, in fact if there was a way to do this at compile time with static control flow analysis it should be done. The newer gcc's seem to start to be doing this with zillions of warnings popping up on old code so I think this is slowly happening...
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Leonardo.b · Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2020 Posts: 302

Which flavour would you rather add to your morning coffe, and why?

Salt
Mustard

Goverp · Advocate Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 2023

I'd replace the coffee with a hot dog. Then using mustard makes sense.
See also https://www.redox-os.org/
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GDH-gentoo · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:39 pm Post subject:

pa4wdh · l33t Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 815

Leonardo.b · Guru Joined: 10 Oct 2020 Posts: 302

Redox OS, I'll try it inside a VM.
Amatorial projects are always funny to play with.

My favourite programming language is C.
I read some books, artichles, programs sources. I don't want to trash everything and move to a "modern" programming language.
"Modernity is the oldest thing in the world."

I did some C++ when I was at university, but I don't like Object Oriented languages in general, I just don't feel natural reasoning in that way.

Rust doesn't attract me.

GDH-gentoo · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:42 pm Post subject:

stefan11111 · l33t Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Posts: 922 Location: Romania

We learn c++ at school, but only use the "convenience" features, like opening files with fstream, reading and writing with iostream allocating memory with new and passing arguments by reference. For projects, I use c because I see no need for all the oo bloat, especially if I won't use it. Structs should be structs, not classes. Pointers should be pointers, not references. Allocation should be done with malloc and free, not new and delete and especially not with gc and/or placing strict restrictions on pointers/removing them all together because they are "unsafe" (looking at you, java)
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pietinger · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:57 pm Post subject:

GDH-gentoo · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:28 pm Post subject:

stefan11111 · l33t Joined: 29 Jan 2023 Posts: 922 Location: Romania

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 3:07 pm Post subject:

C is a low level language, just a step up from writing in assembeler. *chuckle*
Even before C++ came along, there were OO libraries that were springing up.
But even without an OO lang you can write things in a OO format.

To me C++ is C with a OO layer on top of it.

The problem with many languages, from C++ to go. to rust, etc is that they work well for a subset of real world problems,
but once outside that subset, then writing with these languages can become a chore.

There is no one size fits all language, and that includes C, but C will allow you to build practically anything else on top of it,
it just takes a little effort, some forethought, etc. A lot of languages have started off written in C, until they can self-host.
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Hu · Administrator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21856