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Jojobinha_2009
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 Mar 2021
Posts: 77
Location: Brazil
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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:19 am Post subject: Packages I Avoid Because of Huge Compile Times. |
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These packages are for me, the ones the take the longest to emerge/compile and as such, I either mask them or put a ' - ' in their names on the USE flags.
- Qtwebengine (This one hit me the first time I tried Gentoo... took 4+ hours to emerge...);
- Webengine
- Rust (which gets replaced by Rust-Bin anyways);
- OpenCV (don't know why but this single package takes 1.5 hours to compile on my machine)
- MLT.
As a result, I am able to do a full Gentoo + Plasma + systemd install in about 6 hours, as opposed to about 10 to 13 hours of my first attempts.
And this is a fast machine: 24GB of RAM, a 6-core i5 CPU and a 500GB NVMe SSD.
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eccerr0r
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9679
Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes I wonder, is this simply related to the impatience of millennials?
When I first learned of huge compile times, this was when I first built a Linux kernel on my 386. It took my poor computer 5 hours to build 0.99pl12.
Then when doing a world update on my 2GB 1.6GHz Atom took 3 days a few weeks ago, with distcc help...
Dang whippersnappers... should be running Ubuntu. Get off my lawn!
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Juippisi
Developer
Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 724
Location: /home
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Been there compiling openoffice for 24 hours. But nowadays if something takes an hour it irritates me.
We've gotten used to too good ;)
I simply wouldn't use gentoo on slower PCs anymore. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8936
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Packages I Avoid Because of Huge Compile Times. |
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| Jojobinha_2009 wrote: | | - Qtwebengine (This one hit me the first time I tried Gentoo... took 4+ hours to emerge...); |
Your CPU will certainly be the weak spot there, on other desktop CPUs like mine, dev-qt/qtwebengine-5.15.2_p20210224 was built in 40min. It could be too high MAKEOPTS value, could be throttling caused by too high temperatures...
| Jojobinha_2009 wrote: | | - Webengine |
That's not a thing. "webengine" is the USE flag to disable dev-qt/qtwebengine, if at all optional.
| Jojobinha_2009 wrote: | | - MLT. |
That's a 30 sec build time package. What's the problem?
But yes, 15 years ago in the morning I took my laptop with me in my car, still building LibreOffice because it hadn't finished over night yet. A few years later and LO barely registers in build time.
| Juippisi wrote: | | I simply wouldn't use gentoo on slower PCs anymore. |
I'm using Gentoo on a completely passively cooled laptop as well. It almost exclusively consumes binpkgs built on the big machine.
Last edited by asturm on Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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kukibl
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Packages I Avoid Because of Huge Compile Times. |
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| Jojobinha_2009 wrote: |
As a result, I am able to do a full Gentoo + Plasma + systemd install in about 6 hours, as opposed to about 10 to 13 hours of my first attempts.
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Sooner or later you will hit one (or most) of the big ones, so just learn to go with the flow and enjoy the ride. |
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30915
Location: here
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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A good Fitzcarraldo's blog post for remove qtwebengine dependency
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pa4wdh
l33t
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 812
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I have (relatively) slow hardware for my desktop: An intel celeron J1900 (quad core 2 GHz from 2014) with 8 GB ram.
I never use -bin packages, because for me it defeats the purpose of using a source-based distro in the first place. Most packages even compile nicely in ram, with the exception of rust, which is why i hate it 
Even on older hardware (a core2duo for example) i've compiled libreoffice (or it might have been openoffice back than). Yes it takes a while, but it also gives me the sense of really building my machine the way i want it.
I also think (long) compile times have their advantages: It makes you think before you start installing stuff which keeps it clean (Can i go on without a useflag, reducing compile times? Do i really need/want this package?). With any binary distro the install time is very short, and you simply install and simply take all dependencies for granted, and there is a higher chance of making a mess of your system.
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8936
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
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fedeliallalinea
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30915
Location: here
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
Maybe he simply thought it was intentional and not a bug, which is what I thought too.
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Irre
Guru
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Posts: 434
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Why is everything today as slow as it was in 1995?
Bad coding? C++? Java? |
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Dr.Willy
Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 547
Location: NRW, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: |
It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
Probably because one of the options involves less hassle than the other.
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30915
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Irre wrote: | | Why is everything today as slow as it was in 1995? |
Programs add new features (sometimes useful, sometimes not) this increases the source code and so the compile time.
For example from me llvm-3.7 compiled in 7 minutes now version 11 takes 23 minutes, I doubt it is because it has been done badly.
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wjb
l33t
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fife, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Let the big ones build overnight? |
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maalth
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Can't tell you...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| eccerr0r wrote: | Sometimes I wonder, is this simply related to the impatience of millennials?
When I first learned of huge compile times, this was when I first built a Linux kernel on my 386. It took my poor computer 5 hours to build 0.99pl12.
Then when doing a world update on my 2GB 1.6GHz Atom took 3 days a few weeks ago, with distcc help...
Dang whippersnappers... should be running Ubuntu. Get off my lawn!
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I can relate. I remember installing Linux on a 486 DX-50 MHz... whoooeee! Those were fun times!
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maalth
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Can't tell you...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: |
It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
I'm surprised by that. The bug system was always good. I filed a few myself especially when I can replicate the problem more than once.
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8936
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr.Willy wrote: | | asturm wrote: | | It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
Probably because one of the options involves less hassle than the other. |
Right. Because filing a bug so someone could actually do some work is such a hassle compared to maintaining everyone's own copy of an ebuild that is getting monthly updates.
| fedeliallalinea wrote: | | Maybe he simply thought it was intentional and not a bug, which is what I thought too. |
All KDE meta packages contain "+webengine" USE flag so it is supposed to be easily disabled by the flick of that switch. Then having a package that indirectly pulls in dev-qt/qtwebengine runs counter to that.
Last edited by asturm on Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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maalth
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Can't tell you...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I always had a stronger preference for lightweight window managers. I always prefer to connect to my machine remotely via my own network. I only attached a monitor when I couldn't access the system remotely. I always preferred gnome over kde.
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Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| fedeliallalinea wrote: | | asturm wrote: | | It never ceases to amaze me how people rather create their own ebuilds than file a bug. |
Maybe he simply thought it was intentional and not a bug, which is what I thought too. |
Exactly; I thought it was intentional. In cases where I believe something is unintentional, I file a bug report (e.g. Bug 778527 - kde-plasma/plasma-firewall-5.21.3 ebuild should include dependency on sys-apps/systemd on a different issue, which I filed a week before this thread was started). And, actually, even if I had thought there was an error in an ebuild, making a local change would be perfectly reasonable until the bug is fixed, which might take some time.
@asturm: Whether intentional or not, your post was unnecessarily supercilious. There are less condescending ways of making a point.
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fedeliallalinea
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 30915
Location: here
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | All KDE meta packages contain "+webengine" USE flag so it is supposed to be easily disabled by the flick of that switch. Then having a package that indirectly pulls in dev-qt/qtwebengine runs counter to that. |
Now that you say it, it seems clear to me, but I didn't understand it before.
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8936
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fitzcarraldo wrote: | | @asturm: Whether intentional or not, your post was unnecessarily supercilious. There are less condescending ways of making a point. |
It was certainly not intended that way towards you specifically, but a general observation  |
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mike155
Advocate
Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 4438
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: | | All KDE meta packages contain "+webengine" USE flag so it is supposed to be easily disabled by the flick of that switch.runs counter to that. |
I think this USE flag should be disabled by default, following the principle of least surprise.
And (new) users are surprised, if qtwebengine takes hours to compile and finally fails with an OOM error. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8936
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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No, meta packages don't exactly exist to enable the smallest possible system.
In this case, a surprise would be a missing feature or application.
| mike155 wrote: | | and finally fails with an OOM error. |
We can't fix every user's overly optimistic MAKEOPTS value or lack of swap. |
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eccerr0r
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9679
Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't get why media-gfx/freecad needs qtwebengine... must be some feature I don't need (or want)...
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3345
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| eccerr0r wrote: | | I still don't get why media-gfx/freecad needs qtwebengine... must be some feature I don't need (or want)... |
I've seen programs depend on qtwebengine becuase of an intro screen. Yes. Intro screen.
However it may be that FreeCad "needs" it for online/offline manuals.
I did a very quick glance at FreeCad github page and didn't found why it is a depency. So my guess is... well a, guess.
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eccerr0r
Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9679
Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch. Yeah quite possibly freecad falls into that category :(
media-tv/mythtv used to depend on qtwebkit as it actually did allow you to web browse inside of mythtv but it appears it no longer does...thankfully..
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