eudev impending removal

[gtwrek]

Ok, trying not to start a derailed thread, but just saw the eselect news regarding the impending removal of eudev from gentoo on 2022-01-01
2021-08-24-eudev-retirement

Any ideas on how those of us which mask udev should proceed? I know just enough to get myself in trouble. I can just manage to point to overlays correctly.
Is moving eudev to an overlay somewhere a reasonable solution?

Regards,
Mark

[Dorsai!]

I don't think just keeping the latest ebuild around in an overlay is feasible. Udev is still under development and ongoing maintenance burden seems to be the very reason eudev is dropped.

If you're not dependent on virtual/udev specifically and virtual/dev-manager is enough I'd suggest giving busybox's mdev a try. I use it on some less complicated setups and so far it has done its job well over the years. Or you could even run an entirely static /dev like many here, but I wouldn't know about that.

Edit: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev

[NeddySeagoon]

gtwrek,

Go with udev.
eudev will not be maintained an its a lot of work to keep it tracking systemd-udev.

I don't think that staying with an old eudev is an option.
There is also mdev which is doable. Others here have done it and can explain the nuances.

You could also go really hard core old school and not have any dynamic device management on your install at all.
That's what I did. It does need modified ebuilds so that things still build.

The original draft of the news item contained

[gtwrek]

Ok, reading the eselect news closer, I *think* I'm ok. My package.mask contains:
sys-apps/systemd

However, I don't use an INSTALL_MASK 'with a blanket "*systemd*" glob' so I should be ok.

On 2021-10-01, eudev will be masked, and portage will then pick up the udev components as necessary (following my package.mask) - using udev instead of eudev. Is this a correct assessment?

Thanks,
Mark

[mike155]

[eccerr0r]

opentmpfiles got masked (use systemd-tmpfiles)
eudev got masked (use systemd-udev)
elogind ...



(was looking for a smiley under a chair but looks like we don't have one here... but yes this hopefully will just remain a joke.)
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[Naib]

[Ionen]

[asturm]

[mid-kid]

I get the rationale for dropping the hard fork, but after reading the sys-fs/udev ebuild, I can't help but wonder if eudev wouldn't be better off becoming a build harness to more easily build udev without systemd, as well as pre-applying the openembedded patches, and whatever other goodies non-systemd users might need, without being a full hard-fork like eudev was. This is essentially a similar amount of effort as it takes to maintain an ebuild like sys-fs/udev as well as the openembedded patches, and would benefit other distributions as well as provide a single upstream to track the necessary build options/features/additional scripts/patches/configs/etc without having every distribution haphazardly copy each other's build scripts and create minor differences between eachother.

Essentially, what I'm proposing is what the icedtea project has been doing for aeons, and is comparable to perl-cross, wine-staging, or android-tools

Also I'm slightly disappointed to see USE=rule-generator go, as it was a nice in-between of keeping the old interface naming scheme as well as making them persistent across reboots.

[Zucca]

I don't see the problem here.
If udev (the systemd one) can be used without systemd, then why not to switch to it?
Same thing goes with tmpfiles -implementation.

Why to waste resources to develop software with identical functionality and goals? One might as well clone the systemd-udevd repo, rename it to ngudev (for example) and call it a day.

If a day comes when these software packages cannot work without systemd, there will be a forks. Trust me.

So... What am I missing here?
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[Tony0945]

[Zucca]

If things get bad enough, there are enough people to handle forks or replacements.
There are non-systemd distros out there. And using those distros there are people who are willing to make contributions to those forks or replacements. Non-systemd gentoo users aren't here alone. ;)
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..: Zucca :..

[Hu]

[Gatsby]

[Zucca]

As an OpenRC user I'm quite puzzled...
I'm happy to use some of the components of the systemd project that I need to get my system running smoothly without systemd.
Am I a blind sheep stepping into a trap for using such software from systemd? You decide.
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..: Zucca :..

[Gatsby]

[NeddySeagoon]

As eudev existed this didn't happen.
kdbus and busone seemed to have gone away and the threat appears to have receded ... for now.

However, Red Hat still need a kernel wrapper as a part of their Windowification of Linux, so the reprieve is, in my opinion, only temporary.

Static /dev still works for me, so that's my systemd/udev/eudev avoidance path.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[Zucca]

[Tony0945]

I think the sheep are ones baaaing their way to the slaughter. Not the ones refusing to follow the Judas Goat.

[Gatsby]

[pjp]

Discussion reminder, particularly involving systemd:
Historical patterns strongly indicate that as comments trend farther from constructive, chances significantly increase that the opportunity for discussion ends.

[pjp]

[asturm]

I guess you could try

[pjp]