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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian.au wrote:
I'm unconvinced that global socialism is the answer to this problem.

Socialism is never the answer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:

Young people have shown to have mild or no symptoms (carriers) for this disease. Is it surprising that the casualties in Italy were high?

At it's worst, it has killed 10% of those infected in Italy and most of them were old.


The number of infected in Italy is totally unknown, the epidemic had gone undetected for a couple of months already when they started testing. They tested all the population in a few small municipalities in hard hit areas and found that up 90% of the population was positive, it was useless to waste test kits there since it could be assumed that evrybody in the hard hit areas was infected. In fact there are no news cases in those areas :-) That of course does not appear in statistics about infected people on the press.
Mortality is between 0.5% and 1% but up to 15% of the patients will need a ventilator, if there are not ventilators available the mortality could really be as high as 10% or 15%. That is why the indian railways are rushing to manufacture ventilators.
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Last edited by erm67 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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richk449
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian.au wrote:


This virus is really bad for a small and reasonably easy to identify section of the community; like notageek, I'm unconvinced that global socialism is the answer to this problem.

What does a country or substate going on a temporary lockdown to stop the spread of a virus have to do with global socialism?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
notageek wrote:
At it's worst, it has killed 10% of those infected in Italy and most of them were old.

Convert that to numbers India, these numbers have minuscule impact on India.

Okay, so if I convert 10% of the population to India, that works out to, yep, 10% of the population. Do you really consider 10% of the population minuscule?
When did the expected infection rate jump to 100%? Last I heard, and I thought they were high end predctions, was that 70-80% of a population would be infected. 10% of 700 million is still a lot, but so too is the 30 million difference of 100% infection (of a 1bn population).



notageek wrote:
just people getting a bit sick with flu (or flu like symptoms).
I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing in principle, but it is not a flu, and the cause of "flu like symptomps" are not all equal.

Do you dismiss vibrations in the ground because construction isn't particularly dangerous, or do you consider whether or not an earthquake merits a stronger concern. Or that if you happen to be located coastally, that an earthquake could lead to a tsunami?

Again, I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but "flu like symptoms" is the wrong foundation for your position.
Notable human diseases caused by RNA viruses include wrote:
Ebola virus disease, SARS, COVID-19, rabies, common cold, influenza, hepatitis C, hepatitis E, West Nile fever, polio and measles.
The common cold is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. wrote:
The common cold is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. The most commonly implicated virus is a rhinovirus (30–80%), a type of picornavirus with 99 known serotypes.[29][30] Other commonly implicated viruses include human coronavirus (≈ 15%),[31][32] influenza viruses (10–15%),[33] adenoviruses (5%),[33] human respiratory syncytial virus (orthopneumovirus), enteroviruses other than rhinoviruses, human parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus.[34] Frequently more than one virus is present.[35] In total, more than 200 viral types are associated with colds.[3]

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gump Good to Go

@erm, thanks for the room to room pub crawl. I shared it to much laughter.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
ian.au wrote:


This virus is really bad for a small and reasonably easy to identify section of the community; like notageek, I'm unconvinced that global socialism is the answer to this problem.

What does a country or substate going on a temporary lockdown to stop the spread of a virus have to do with global socialism?


A temporary lockdown (well after the horse bolted) won't achieve anything in this case.

A full lockdown for an extended period, and I'm talking in terms of months and you get communism by default, unless you call everybody being paid via a state welfare system and contributing labour to essential services something else? There's a good reason your President wants this resolved by Easter.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:00 am    Post subject: covid19 Reply with quote

Hello,

if you do not know about it right now. covid19 is not a joke. Please wash your hands, stay 2 meters away from friends, people an some human kind.

Its no joke. To keep you safe just follow the rules and read information about the virus. Do not trust Tv and social media. Just read Newspapers and scientific medical nodes.

On surfaces the virus exist just for a short time like 10 minutes and in a closed room it just stay there in the air for 20 minutes an fall down to the ground quickly*. To get ill someone need to cough into your face and drop some fluids in your nose, eye or mouth.

Wash your hands before a meal and do not touch your face (or mouth, nose, eyes) with your fingers unwashed.

Do not take a chance for the virus to get into your body!

Children do not have any symptoms. Any older could often spread this disease before they got symptoms and they fell itself good and not ill. This make this so dangerous.

Have a good time and do not end up at a ventilator in your hospital.

Smoking is bad because its good for the virus to got carried in your lungs. If you got ill you have in average 5.x Days to get ill and about 7 or 14 days to get symptoms. 21 Days to 28 to got cured. Some people feel nothing, some got from one day to the next a malfunction of there lungs and end up in hospital at a ventilator or die at home. Not in every case, but in some. Some ages are preferred, but its not fully clear why. Some old got it and some young and some old like a 101 old stay alive and some younger will die. True its not likely for the most, but still possible. So do not take the risk..

Regards

Chris

*Like if someone cought heavily or talk about more than an hour, open your windows for fresh air is good. Speak with friends outside is too, because a breeze carry away the fluid with virus.... on closed rooms its stay in the room fore some time and if you breath in you put it into your throat.

Edit: Here you find a world status map/dashboard from Johns Hopkins.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1243374228734345217
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok india is doomed:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52061915
Quote:
Coronavirus: India 'super spreader' quarantines 40,000 people

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much of a general PSA this is, I still think some of these facts are incomplete and conditionally incorrect.

There's already a thread about COVID-19 in OTW though there's the politics, even though viruses don't care...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serious question, with most wage earners living paycheck to paycheck worldwide... how is rent going to be handled when lolgov is forcing everyone to stay at home?

Food > rent. When people are looking at their last resources, eating has precedence above paying the landlord/bank.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Serious question, with most wage earners living paycheck to paycheck worldwide... how is rent going to be handled when lolgov is forcing everyone to stay at home?

Food > rent. When people are looking at their last resources, eating has precedence above paying the landlord/bank.
thinking of starting a microbrewery.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
Muso wrote:
Serious question, with most wage earners living paycheck to paycheck worldwide... how is rent going to be handled when lolgov is forcing everyone to stay at home?

Food > rent. When people are looking at their last resources, eating has precedence above paying the landlord/bank.
thinking of starting a microbrewery.


<3

Might as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/infosys-terminates-employee-who-wanted-to-spread-the-virus
Quote:
The Indian IT major Infosys yesterday announced that it has terminated the services of an employee (Mujeeb Mohammed) who had made a social media post encouraging people to ‘go out and sneeze’ in order to ‘spread the virus’.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rich are the Coronavirus devils lazy as they are ...
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richk449
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian.au wrote:
richk449 wrote:
ian.au wrote:


This virus is really bad for a small and reasonably easy to identify section of the community; like notageek, I'm unconvinced that global socialism is the answer to this problem.

What does a country or substate going on a temporary lockdown to stop the spread of a virus have to do with global socialism?


A temporary lockdown (well after the horse bolted) won't achieve anything in this case.

A full lockdown for an extended period, and I'm talking in terms of months and you get communism by default, unless you call everybody being paid via a state welfare system and contributing labour to essential services something else? There's a good reason your President wants this resolved by Easter.

That’s a fair point. I was thinking of lockdown separately from government efforts to avoid economic collapse, but you are right that they are somewhat coupled.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
The rich are the Coronavirus devils lazy as they are ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitions, What is a Full Lockdown?

It is very easy right now to find opinion pieces decrying the questionable morality of economic activity. What is a life worth?, they ask. They all seem to be virtue signaling, excoriating politicians for being concerned with the impact upon economic activity. None consider the cessation of economic activity that is high upon the scale of providing them with medical, food, or shelter needs.

Full Shutdown: The Docs and Nurses all go home and shelter in place. The Grocers and Delivery Drivers all go home and shelter in place. The utilities workers shut everything down that cannot be run without direct control and themselves go home and shelter in place. Finally, Law Enforcement goes home and shelters in place. All of those workers are engaged in economic activity.

What are their lives worth?

Then there is all of the work required to create the things that sustain life. Do those workers stay at home and shelter in place too?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a sad argument but here special benefits were already recognized to the families of ambulance drivers, paramedics, policeman nurse and doctors fallen of COVID-19 they caught doing their duty. Some say also supermarket cashiers should deserve special benefits but that is probably too much .... but for those that must work at strict contact with infected persons and are exposed to very high viral levels is deserved.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The UK finally realized that China is lying
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The UK finally realized that China is lying
Quote:
Officials also believe China is trying to expand its economic power through offering help to other countries which are trying to combat the virus.
I guess they're trying to tap into a revenue stream from the burgeoning biotech industry.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well according to some chinese doctors from Wuhan that now work here the problem is that China really has no idea about how many people died of COVID, the WHO wants the number of deaths confirmed by laboratory analysis but when the health care system collapsed in Wuhan people were dying on the streets near the hospitals waiting to be checked in, and they just collected the corpses and burned them without taking bio samples or identifying the cause of dead. And that is why the official data they submitted to WHO is so low, that is the number of deaths by COVID-19 confirmed by laboratory. Also a few thousand people died probably before they identified the virus and clearly their deaths is also not counted. They also say the number of 45000 is probably too high but not too much, maybe 30000.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

China is just continuing what they have been doing in Africa. Provide loans for infrastructure, factories, mining, natural resources, then take over when host nation cannot repay the loans.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
China is just continuing what they have been doing in Africa. Provide loans for infrastructure, factories, mining, natural resources, then take over when host nation cannot repay the loans.


Like the worst NYC slumlord on a continental scale.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/spain-returns-faulty-test-kits-to-china-as-covid-19-death-toll-passes-4000-mark/

Quote:
The Spanish association of microbiologists (SEIMC) warned that the testing kits in this batch performed with an accuracy level of under 30%,


If those were the same COVID-19 tests they used in wuhan it is clear why they have no idea about how many died.
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