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asturm
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are looking at X and Wayland as if they are equivalent, which they are not, so the notion is wrong to begin with. So please throw away all your bias or assumptions that may come from that for starters. And then accept that kwin is using kwayland even when in an X session, and accept that most Wayland sessions will have to provide XWayland for legacy applications in the foreseeable future.

Here's what is true about the typical user: They don't care about many of the small libraries that are needed to run KDE Plasma, and you should look at libwayland as just another such library. It does not carry any more weight worth mentioning.
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mike155
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
Surely a typical user has one or another, X or wayland, but shouldn't be needing both at the same time.

That's definitely not true!
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
You are looking at X and Wayland as if they are equivalent, which they are not, so the notion is wrong to begin with. So please throw away all your bias or assumptions that may come from that for starters. And then accept that kwin is using kwayland even when in an X session, and accept that most Wayland sessions will have to provide XWayland for legacy applications in the foreseeable future.


This is not bias, this is example of lack of modularity at rather fundamental level. In principle, there should be no need for any machine to have two stacks with the same role.
That kwin is using kwayland even in an X session ( how modular is that ?) just tells me that KDE team tries to build wayland based system, but have not succeeded yet.
That wayland session will have to provide XWayland - well, that's a problem of any newcomer.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please pay attention to the stuff you quote, it saves everyone time in the process. You only care about Wayland because you heard it replaces X. You assume therefore it does the similar things as X, it takes similar resources as X - both fundamentally wrong already at the level of expecting Wayland to 'do' something at all.

dmpogo wrote:
In principle, there should be no need for any machine to have two stacks with the same role.

They don't have the same role. At_all_. They're not even 'two stacks'.

dmpogo wrote:
That kwin is using kwayland even in an X session ( how modular is that ?) just tells me...

No, it tells you there is a security function in kwin otherwise not available with X. KDE could duplicate the code to fulfill the same duty, only to improve the well-being of very few people eager to avoid a random library they just happen to know by name, do you think that is a good use of resources? No, it isn't, instead KDE have made Plasma more efficient with every release since 5.0, to the extent that it is even compared with Xfce.
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