Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
EU referendum (part 2)
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25, 26  Next  
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW isn't BJ half turk? Maybe Erdogan corrupted him to make him damage the UK economy in that way .... hahaha a half-turk leading the anti immigrant movement, funny. They say immigrants take only the woks natives can't do :-) :-) hahahaha
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net


Last edited by erm67 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7217
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

even worse, he has US citizenship and uses his Russian second name... connect the dots!
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrix_neo
Guru
Guru


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 519
Location: The Maldives

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
even worse, he has US citizenship and uses his Russian second name... connect the dots!


Your relative?
_________________
Life is a fog where some thinks to know where to go
To make an error is human, letting it be is the error.
Deus Vult
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrgh, come on - not a foolish name game!
Boris Johnson is corruptable not with money but
... high achievement being greatly valued; Johnson's earliest recorded ambition was to be "world king"
power
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2600

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
If he did that brexit would happen, all the EU monetarily interests Labour has would dry up, and the Labour platform would implode. The entire idea is that Tories = bad. If they agree to any brexit they loose. Lib Dems loose worse. They are basically being funded by the EU.

Right now the political class in the UK don't want brexit because they all get money from the EU. Basically, corruption. Any type of brexit will devastate the political class.
If the whole of the UK political class is funded by the EU - never heard of it - I ask myself:
Why wouldn't the UK fund their own politicians themself ?
Who ever said it was all funded by the EU? Lib dems and Labour have strong ties and that was disclosed by election law, so if you haven't heard about it that is just because you where not paying attention. But it does answer the question as to why they won't pass a brexit deal before the election: they loose their financial backing.

And the answer to the second part is that the UK does fund its own politicians. Mostly the ones who are anti-EU. Connect those dots.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@The Doctor
Do you have an article to read about that weirdness ?

We in Germany heard about a sponsor of the leave campaign in 2016 got promised a silver mine in Russia ...
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2600

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a breakdown
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Here is a breakdown


There was another video in the reptilians channel with a better proof .....

ulenrich wrote:
Arrgh, come on - not a foolish name game!
Boris Johnson is corruptable not with money but
... high achievement being greatly valued; Johnson's earliest recorded ambition was to be "world king"
power



muahahahaha Boris Johnson and achievement in the same sentence mhuahahahaha

I bet Grumpf will try to sell him the wall full of holes for NI hahahahaha he's going to pay it with commemorative coins with his face on it of course

No surprise apparently according to this thread the UK is full of people ready to sell their contry to foreigners for personal interests .... why not try to buy something.

It sounds like The Rhetoric of Reaction in opposition to social change consisting of three narratives: perversity, futility, and jeopardy, and that, further, these narratives are simplistic and flawed, and cut off debate.
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5713
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/lib-dems-leader/

30seconds of searching...
The gravy trail is real so stop trying to refute it. Get them reliant on funding or influence and they will do what they can to maintain it...
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7217
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly explains why Farage is planning to split the leave vote, so he can continue his business model of sitting as MEP and achieving exactly zero for his country there. It is against his interests to leave!

At least Sinn Féin do the honorable thing and don't sit in Westminster at all.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 44213
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm,

Not at all. Boris wants to leave with his deal.
Farage wants to walk away and do all the dealing after.

There is merit in doing all the dealing in one go.
All Boris is offering is the end of the beginning and making further dealing more difficult.
However, Boris approach offers a transition period and thats worth something too.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7217
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Farage wants to walk away and do all the dealing after.

Well, he also said he'd just walk away from UK if Brexit didn't work. :lol:
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
.... Boris wants to leave with his deal.
Farage wants to walk away and do all the dealing after.

There is merit in doing all the dealing in one go.
All Boris is offering is the end of the beginning and making further dealing more difficult.
However, Boris approach offers a transition period and thats worth something too.

Interestingly in german discussions there are EU experts (journalists and political science), who consider it an error of the EU to phase the problem of Brexit into two parts. But one must realize we will not see the many difficulties of any all in one approach until Farage wins a super majority in next elections.

The difference between Theresa Mays deal and the BoJo one is perhaps far deeper than we can see. Labor wants to make a campaign of the uncertainties of the BoJo deal: Due to the missing backstop (but NI) there is a No-Deal-Exit chance at the end of phase2 now! For the Brits to have any leverage in phase2 dealings gets harder. This is exactly why Theresa May persisted on a backstop! But BoJo coudn't think about it because in his mind was his power struggle the only thing important. (Boris is corruptable with power - I wrote about it)

Side note:
The phased Brexit deal is like Trump phase1 deal with China now. But I think Trump covers loosing the trade war by phasing out of the important issues we all have with China. Because Trump dislikes multilateral dealings we all lost our last chance to make the future super power a partner.
Did you see the exclusion of the USA in the multilateral ASEAN meeting just happens? There is a probability the USA will try to merge economics with the EU in consequence of this market loss in east Asia. For the UK this means: "All streets end up in Rome." But for the USA it is a big win to have the UK on their side in later dealings.
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Here is a breakdown

Agricultural subsidies from the EU
Regional subsidies from the EU
George Soros donates to LibDems

Nothing special the EU has paid to corrupt the political process in the UK.
I find our usage of the word "corrupt" unsharply foggying the semantics: When I say BoJo is corruptable with power I speak about a feature of his character but not about "corruption" in an economical meaning. We should sharpen our language ....

PS: Further Mahyar Tousi tells about 3000 pounds spent on facebook ads by the LibDems. How much worth do you think the exclusion of the LibDems from ITV debates are? (millions ...)
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Certainly explains why Farage is planning to split the leave vote, so he can continue his business model of sitting as MEP and achieving exactly zero for his country there. It is against his interests to leave!

At least Sinn Féin do the honorable thing and don't sit in Westminster at all.


A winner takes all electoral system like the british one involves the concept of wasted votes, a foreign concept for those used to proportional democracy like the rest of the EU, but most votes go wasted in their elections.
Farage will probably get 0 seats but hopes to increase the number of wasted votes attracting hardline brexiters so that less useful votes are required to get a majority of seats, since the number of votes for the tories will be probably less in december they need some sort of gerrymandering to get 50.1% of seats with 30% of the votes this time .... the tories formed a minority government the last time with the help of DUP but now that BJ betrayed NI accepting a customs border that they oppose since would be dramatic for the NI economy, the tories need a majority without external help to go on with brexit in parliament.

Farage might get 11% of the votes and 0 seats with the UK electoral system but it might be useful for the victory of the tories.

Their electoral system is complicated and Sinn Fein might get some seats this time since the DUP failed ... nobody will vote them if they support BJ brexit plan with the customs border in NI.

The worst thing is that the libdem, sponsored and affiliated by the ALDE EU extremist group which in turn is sponsored by Google and Amazon, vowed the after a remainers victory they will bring back EU for good including ditching the pound for the euro ..... that's what should worry us at most ;-) even if the other euro countries would never accept them in the club.
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net


Last edited by erm67 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:30 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an interview with Richard Tice from the Brexit Party we learn they do the uncertainty argument of the Labor Party the other way round:
While Labor campaigns there could be a No-Deal-Exit with the Tories in the end of 2020 -
the Brexit Party argues with Boris Johnson there will be an unlimited phase2 transition period keeping the UK mostly in the EU far beyond 2020 !

... most probably both arguments will liquidate as false 8)
Seeing the weakness of campaigns I predict Boris Johnson the winner
... but he fails with an error of his own during campaign :roll:
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

the Brexit Party argues with Boris Johnson there will be an unlimited phase2 transition period keeping the UK mostly in the EU far beyond 2020 !


Very likely but the EU will soon take measure to regulate the countries(y) in the article 50 purgatory and that will certain damage even more the UK economy and put more pressure on them. Right now UK companies can still move freely in the EU and so they hope this will last forever, but the EU might vote a resolution so that companies from countries in the Article 50 purgatory will no longer be able to move freely after 2 years even if their country got yet another (costly) delay or some other punitive measure.

How much is going to pay the UK to stay more months in the EU? Did they got already the billl?
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
e3k
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 426
Location: Inner Space

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

the Brexit Party argues with Boris Johnson there will be an unlimited phase2 transition period keeping the UK mostly in the EU far beyond 2020 !


Very likely but the EU will soon take measure to regulate the countries(y) in the article 50 purgatory and that will certain damage even more the UK economy and put more pressure on them. Right now UK companies can still move freely in the EU and so they hope this will last forever, but the EU might vote a resolution so that companies from countries in the Article 50 purgatory will no longer be able to move freely after 2 years even if their country got yet another (costly) delay or some other punitive measure.

How much is going to pay the UK to stay more months in the EU? Did they got already the billl?
yes. after elections there will be a demand from the EU that UK makes up it's mind. (i still hope for a brexit cancel) and so does maybe more than 50% of UK citizens now. lets see after 12.12.
_________________
((O.o))
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
yes. after elections there will be a demand from the EU that UK makes up it's mind. (i still hope for a brexit cancel) and so does maybe more than 50% of UK citizens now. lets see after 12.12.


the problem is that it is unlikely that 50% of UK voters will get a fair representation in parliament under the current UK electoral system:
https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post
in a referendum maybe 52% votes for remain means victory for remain but not in their general elections, after all minorities ruled the UK for the last 200 years thank to that system.
and they would not let you in anyway...

After all once they leave, since their economy will be still highly dependent on the acces to the 400million consumers market in the EU they will be forced to accept any condition, it is even better ...
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
in a referendum maybe 52% votes for remain means victory for remain but not in their general elections, after all minorities ruled the UK for the last 200 years thank to that system.
and they would not let you in anyway...

I reject a referendum vote of 52% in principle:
It is the most honorable task of the Parliament to decide in democracy. If Parliamnet gives back to the voters this task, the electorate should have the right to reject this responsibility: Thus any non-voter should count as a "No" vote.
Such a rule with referendi would get you a qualified majority needed for a win of about 66%
All the youngsters, which in 2016 had not voted in the Brexit referendum, would have been counted as No votes!

This simple rule would solve the problem what to ask in a referendum: For the most questions asked only a tiny crowd would be interested: A referendum where less than 50% of the electorate comes forward to give the vote would not even be counted. A referendum hold on Chrismas, when people travel to family meetings, cannot make a catastrophe, because it would not be counted. :lol:

By the way a seat in Parliament should also depend on an absolute number of voters. Such a way a not interested electorate would get you a much smaller Parliament.
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 445
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

By the way a seat in Parliament should also depend on an absolute number of voters. Such a way a not interested electorate would get you a much smaller Parliament.

Does this mean that you, unlike most of the EU press, have realized that their election work differently than in Germany or that you wish such change for the German electoral system?
How does that apply to their First Past the Post electoral system, can you elaborate please?

You keep talking about % of votes when that makes no sense in the First Past the Post system and of referenda like they were politically binding in the UK..... even the few journalist well informed here have problems explainin it to public. Like most EUian you just refuse diversity.

I was watching a TV show on Italian TV a couple of days a go and a journalist that lived for the last 30 years in London was explaining correctly the electoral system in the UK he talked for a while and when he was done the host looked at him and asked "Yes, but the Brexit Party will be able to make a difference in Parliament whith their 10% of votes?".The well informed journalist looked at him desperate, I think he just gave up since all what he said before was apparently useless. It is just unthinkable for us that 10% of votes are just wasted votes that are not mean anything in Parliament.
_________________
Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@erm67
I gave my vote in the EU election a new youth driven european party. I have forgotten the name :(
They couldn't register in all countries, but in Germany they got their only and single MP for the EU elected :)
Although I am a lefty I gave my vote an aristocrat, because I wanted the youth in Europe has its role.

The thread for democracy is a spiraling down voter turnout. To get rid of that problem I would like
- every MP must have 100t votes in Germany
- a system alike in UK were a majority elects their own MP
- not loosing proportions: Every candidate can give away his votes to other candidates

In the EU the voter in every county is different now. The electorate in little countries has much more voting power. For the purpose to give the voters in big countries more power
I would not give Germany more MPs for the EU parliament, but
a candidate should be able to give away his votes to candidates in other countries.

A non-voter should have power! He should be counted when not voting! In a referendum his vote should be counted NO
_________________
the thread ain't easily find an end
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrix_neo
Guru
Guru


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 519
Location: The Maldives

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Arrgh, come on - not a foolish name game!


Yo mama is sooo fat that McDonalds built a restaurant where she lives
_________________
Life is a fog where some thinks to know where to go
To make an error is human, letting it be is the error.
Deus Vult
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aidanjt
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Rep. of Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Wut is border?!' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP53k64VZRo
_________________
juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
A non-voter should have power! He should be counted when not voting! In a referendum his vote should be counted NO
So someone who voluntarily elects not to vote should still be counted? If the person wanted to vote no, they would have voted no.

I do not believe you have thought that through.
_________________
The Future Ain't What It Used To Be

Christmas Lights Are Like Jeffrey Epstein, They Don't Hang Themselves.

The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
George Orwell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25, 26  Next
Page 24 of 26

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum