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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso,

The last UK monarch to try to dabble in politics was beheaded.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Muso,

The last UK monarch to try to dabble in politics was beheaded.


So, not a road any member of the House of Windsor will be heading down any time soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel for the queen. She is litterally in a position where she will be accused of playing politics no matter her choice. If she says yes remain claims this is an act to sabotage parliament and subvert the British people. If she says no brexit says it is an act to sabotage the parliament and subvert the British people. Not good options.

For whatever its worth, I think this is the right call in the long term. At least now she can fall back on historical president of the monarch not refusing the PM.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
e3k wrote:
i have read now maybe a 1000 of Brexit posts. i still do not understand why the fuck did the Britons decide to leave the closest geological partner in a referendum. I do not live in the UK so could some lads explain this to me?
because we wanted to

That’s exactly how my three year old answered me earlier today when I asked him why he did something.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Naib wrote:
e3k wrote:
i have read now maybe a 1000 of Brexit posts. i still do not understand why the fuck did the Britons decide to leave the closest geological partner in a referendum. I do not live in the UK so could some lads explain this to me?
because we wanted to

That’s exactly how my three year old answered me earlier today when I asked him why he did something.
The sentence of Naib not was at its end. And a second follows:
Quote:
Because we wanted to have better deals with the EU and the rest of the world.
And we felt, we could loose our own english way of life staying in the EU.

Although I love the joke of Naibs half sentence the full truth is worthwhile to remember: Actually there is a shift to the second sentence in english public. Isn't there?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The progressive view expressed directly from London on how Boris Johnson is trying to change the britisch constitution, which he broke when utilizing the Queen for his own political agenda. When regicide not is an option (as in the past) the only way to restaure the constitution is pushing for resignation of the Queen? Otherwise this precedent returns royal influence over parliament forever?

How lucky a man living in a country, where not the clown but a qualified majority in parliament can change the constitution. Even then revoked by constitutional court, when this change harms slightly the dignity of any human being.

On Sky Gina Miller finds prorogation was the constitutional breach.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no constitutional crisis... A queen's speech is required and typically occurs every year to open a new session of parliament to indicate the order of business until the next queen's speech
Brexit debates have crippled normal parliamentary business as no knew direction has been tabled in soo long (this is the longest period without a queen's speech since the 17century

How can a normal function be the cause of a constitutional crisis?


The timing however... Purely political and that is without a doubt BUT this isnt the first nor the last time this is done. It is typically done just before the summer shutdown. The last time it was done in the UK was in the 90s when John Major did it for 6weeks to stop the release of a cash for questions report, something which is ILLEGAL in the UK. That wasn't a constitutional crisis and that involved trying to bury a scandal.

How can this be if an illegal act wasn't
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich,

Proroguing parliament is required to start a new parliamentary session.
Its always followed by the Queens speech setting out the governments stall for the new parliamentary session. Parliamentary sessions are not fixed durations and the one about to end is one of the longest in history.

As we have a new cabinet with new ideas, its not exactly a surprise that they want to set out their stall.

For most of the time parliament will be prorogued it would have been suspended anyway.
There is a small difference. When parliament is suspended, it can be recalled. When parliament is prorogued, it cannot be recalled.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?

Wait what. A monarch cannot resign for starters. Second, had she done ANYTHING but just rubber stamp the "request" from her Prime Minister, then the Queen would have become political and THEN we would have had a constitutional crisis (the UK is a constitutional monarchy)...

The queen did nothing wrong in this.


Only four sittings days are being lost for a standard parliamentary process. When should such a Queen's speech be called? just after Oct 31st when the gov'n and parliament need to be overly active to head off any disruption?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?


I can't see that happening, she wouldn't be able to sign on for ages.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?


I can't see that happening, she wouldn't be able to sign on for ages.
Not to mention she would need to pay for a TV license now
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On BBC the same Gina Miller claims, UK government said to her, prorogation would harm parliamentary sovereignty. Just before they have done it.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
mrbassie wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?


I can't see that happening, she wouldn't be able to sign on for ages.
Not to mention she would need to pay for a TV license now


'It's a toaster.'
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Wait what. A monarch cannot resign for starters?


Edward VIII
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Naib wrote:
Wait what. A monarch cannot resign for starters?


Edward VIII
that's abdication (intent the same, but monarch's don't resign)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
Naib wrote:
Wait what. A monarch cannot resign for starters?


Edward VIII
that's abdication (intent the same, but monarch's don't resign)


Yep, it's the same meat, different gravy.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

linky


Quote:
Angry crowds of Remainers target Tory MP's offices and cheer for him to 'bring down the government' as Jeremy Corbyn supporters arrange protest outside Jacob Rees Mogg's HOME after Momentum boss's call to 'shut down the streets' and thwart No Deal Brexit


Defend democracy - only defend it, if it's what the powers that be want it to be.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Naib wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
Naib wrote:
Wait what. A monarch cannot resign for starters?


Edward VIII
that's abdication (intent the same, but monarch's don't resign)


Yep, it's the same meat, different gravy.
and anyway, this isn't a situation which would call for an abdication.
Had the Queen said no, refused the request of the PM, we would have been in a constitutional crisis which would have resulted in a bill being read at the earliest opportunity to further restrict the monarchy's powers, to the point we all but a federation, resulting in the abdication of the line

THAT is a constitutional crisis, not this.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

found on https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-49505047
Quote:
The Daily Mirror accuses Boris Johnson of creating a "constitutional crisis" for the benefit only of his own political future.

In its leader column, the Guardian calls his actions "a grotesque abuse of the country's highest political office".

The Financial Times urges MPs to pass a motion of no confidence in the prime minister. It warns darkly that if he refuses to resign, as The Times moots, it "would confirm Britain has a despot".

The Daily Mail objects to what it calls the "hysterics of the Remain irreconcilables". It insists it is not "glorying" in what it calls the "sobering step", but suggests Mr Johnson's tactic is paying off and that the EU is signalling it may offer concessions.

The Times draws a similar conclusion but urges Mr Johnson now to prepare to fight an election and win a "thumping majority".

The Daily Telegraph predicts that the next few weeks will be chaotic but praises the prime minister for acting "boldly".

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REMINDER: Both Labour and the Conservatives pledged to honour the Brexit referendum result in their manifestos at the subsequent election. So spare me all this Remoaner guff about prorogation ‘destroying democracy’. Those destroying democracy are those seeking to stop Brexit.

Source
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich,

ulenrich wrote:
@NeddySeagoon @Naib
But both of you agree the Queen must resign,
when it turns out in some objectivied manner,
she had been used against parliament?


The Queen did the only thing should could do. Act on the advice of her Prime Minster.
Had she done anything else, she may have been next in line for the headsmans axe.
There are some quaint old corner cases in UK law ...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outrage on Twitter espressed in the UK
Quote:
#StopTheCoup: Scottish court to rule on attempt to block Boris Johnson takeover

Loved this woman’s sign at Leicester’s #StopTheCoup protest
For Charles I

I think we have gotten to the point where as brilliant as petitions, marches and street stalls have been we are now into a different game altogether #GeneralStrike #BlockTheCoup

Pleased to address the crowd in Leeds this evening. I’m no public speaker so it’s not great...
I hadn’t planned to speak. But I’m so angry, I just had to. #StopTheCoup

This is Leeds, England. Right now.
It’s 1/10th the size of London.
Thousands are still flooding the city square.
To #StopTheCoup

It is clear that the government has blocked the police investigation into Vote Leave's law-breaking in 2016. Who are they protecting? Here are two names - Johnson and Cummings. Without the cover-up they might now be languishing in jail as convicted criminals.
#StopTheCoup

Public meeting this evening Norwich city hall, organised by Norfolk for Europe at 24 hour notice, to protest prorogation of our Parliament, addressed by Stephen McNair, dep chair. Police estimate 1500 attendees.
#StopTheCoup

Less than 24 hours notice yet hundreds turned out in Malvern to protest about the Johnson prorogation. Top to bottom of Church Street! #StopTheCoup

Most of the #StopTheCoup footage I saw yesterday was from London.

But today people across the UK are protesting in:
Birmingham
Norwich
Swansea
Manchester
And Leeds
#StopTheCoup

**THIS SATURDAY, 31ST AUGUST, 12PM**
**TAKE TO THE STREET, DEFEND DEMOCRACY AND #STOPTHECOUP
**ASSEMBLE OUTSIDE 10 DOWNING STREET**
But not here forums.gentoo.org
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There now is evidence on video from Boris' own government:
The prime minister wittingly prorogued the parliament for unconstitutional reason!
Instead of protecting the constitution Boris Johnson unlawfully broke it.
Quote:
Defence secretary Ben Wallace has been caught on camera suggesting that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament was driven by the demands of his Brexit plans.

Mr Wallace appeared to admit that the government faced difficulties in maintaining control in a finely balanced House of Commons, ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-brexit-ben-wallace-video-prorogue-a9083851.html
In any other country he should resign now for sure. But UK?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich,

What constitution?
The UK does not have a written constitution, so its always a matter of opinion if its been 'broken' or not.
The 'constitution' is hundreds of years of precedent.
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