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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I speak about laws in the UK at any point? I have ZERO interest nor knowledge.
ulenrich wrote:

1. Hard Brexit - No-Deal - will go through because of formally time lines?
Despite the majority of parliament has voted against the No-Deal already and speaker of the house has declared his enforcement of the will of the parliament.

I do accept any FUD of me you disclose as a positive disclosure. This is why I am discussing with you. I want to be corrected.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that matters is the legal status. It doesn't matter what people say, what matters is what is done and is signed into law.

If you have no idea or interest in British law, why are you challenging those here that do, especially when we have repeatedly stated time is running out for any other alternative.
The alternative must be LEGAL, they must be LAW otherwise it is just discussion and the LEGAL default is leave 31st Oct

There was a small window after Boris became leader of the Tories (and thus headed the tory formed gov'n) for a vote of no confidence (which if passed, and a vote of confidence failed a General Election would have been called). This was missed...

We are down to about 60days... An agreement must be reached between Barnier and Boris. This has to be accepted by the British cabinet, this has to be passed by the Commons, this has to be passed by the Lords... in 60days? Then there is such agreement being ratified by all 27 member states...

the window for a non-NoDeal is rapidly closing. With Boris taking a surge in the polls, with the Brexit party still holding ground, with Labour nose-diving in the polls, with no unified proEU stance within the house... who would risk a vote of no confidence now? even if they won, even if the vote of confidence failed, Boris would be caretaker PM with his present cabinet until parliament was dissolved for a general election... The time to do this to block noDeal was last month.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, you want to accuse everyone else of not knowing what is happening but

1) It is legally written out in the formal treaty the forms the EU that after withdrawing via article 50 no obligations remain. Your assertion that the UK would be doing anything wrong by not paying is absurd, as is the EUs. Now, it is perfectly conceivable that some deal might be made to pay the money but that it is automatically owed? That is absurd.

If the EU would blockade the UK that is an act of war. Britannia rules the seas and the last time Germany tried a blockade it did not go well. No leader in the EU is stupid enough to try. Not least of which is that the US would probably be forced respond militarily to the EU countries breaking countless treaties.

If the EU stops trade with the UK, Congratulations! You just crashed your economies and caused widespread suffering. Particularly for the Irish. The UK isn't going to be in a much better spot but that does mean that the people in the EU are going to be pissed and vote in right wing parties who are anti-EU.

As for the UK being pirates, you still have not answered how the UK can be required to pay any money under the Lisbon Treaty when article 50 says that after withdrawing no part remains in force. There has been no agreement to pay any money so why do you think there is any obligation to do so?

Quote:
The heading of above NYTimes link begins:
Quote:
U.K. Lawmakers Reject ‘No-Deal’ Brexit
Stop. It reads U.K. "Lawmakers Reject ‘No-Deal’ Brexit, and Defy Theresa May Yet Again" Old news. If you where to actually read the story in question you would have found this:
Quote:
Though it was nonbinding, the vote was another harsh blow to Mrs. May.
In other words, this vote is political posturing. It is not law.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@The_Doctor,
ulenrich wrote:
Did I speak about laws in the UK at any point? I have ZERO interest nor knowledge.
ulenrich wrote:

1. Hard Brexit - No-Deal - will go through because of formally time lines?
Despite the majority of parliament has voted against the No-Deal already and speaker of the house has declared his enforcement of the will of the parliament.

I do accept any FUD of me you disclose as a positive disclosure. This is why I am discussing with you. I want to be corrected.

When discussing with three posters against me, please give me a minute to answere. I also have to correct my bad english 3 times a single post...

But now it is sleep time for me. good night.
PS: Just found
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/27/boris-johnson-will-back-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh... Again, what people say and what people do are rarely the same.
Boris NEVER voted for Mays deal. I even provided you the results and one is after that statement YET you cling to that bit of FUD

Show me where he voted for May's deal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Sigh... Again, what people say and what people do are rarely the same.
Boris NEVER voted for Mays deal. I even provided you the results and one is after that statement YET you cling to that bit of FUD

Show me where he voted for May's deal
You are taking my sleep, but
When Boris spreads FUD about himself, and I know Nigel Farage took it for real, and Boris says, the only bad of Mays deal is the backstop, and I have the solution for them to get rid of the backstop by informal delay and formal Brexit on time (To get rid of the backstop they just have to include a little additional clause which allows the UK to withdraw from the Brexit deal to a No-Deal scenario after two years time)
Why do you think it is FUD when I just conclude a prediction of all this.

When you say Johnson wants to pay 9Bn, and I say, if paying nothing, there will be by chance a judge in the EU, who could seize UK property, this would block any trade! That is the only reason Johnson wants to pay 9Bn, isn't it? Again something you would not admit, because you do nothing admit, nothing at all, never! That is boring.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich,

That was a statement of intent that was never followed through.
Which MPs voted which way in the three votes so far is a matter of public record. Please cite these records for facts.

Politicians, even in the EU, rarely do what they say they will. So don't hold your breath for Borises 9 Billion.
I suspect that it was yet more political posturing' which is all we will see from the UK until parliament sits again on Tuesday, 03 September 2019.
Then the house of commons can hold the government to account.

With the legal position being to leave the EU on 31 October and no support for the present offer, there is little time for any other offer to be made, reviewed and accepted.
Requesting as extension would be political suicide for Boris.

Winning a vote of no confidence will be political suicide for Corbyn as general election timing will ensure that there is no government to consider any other offer.

The default always has been and remains for the UK to leave the EU without any deal. Its been averted so far by moving the deadline.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Naib wrote:
Sigh... Again, what people say and what people do are rarely the same.
Boris NEVER voted for Mays deal. I even provided you the results and one is after that statement YET you cling to that bit of FUD

Show me where he voted for May's deal
You are taking my sleep, but
When Boris spreads FUD about himself, and I know Nigel Farage took it for real, and Boris says, the only bad of Mays deal is the backstop, and I have the solution for them to get rid of the backstop by informal delay and formal Brexit on time (To get rid of the backstop they just have to include a little additional clause which allows the UK to withdraw from the Brexit deal to a No-Deal scenario after two years time)

Multiple alternatives have been put forward with regards to the backstop... Technology (which has been deployed by France, which is in use by Switzerland, which is being considered Ireland)... Openboarder as per the GFA as UK and Ireland both have no intention of Raising a hard boarder YET the EU expects one.
Likewise things have been stated here about what could occur.... Like what I posted last month https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8356854.html#8356854
But that relies on the EU wanting to re-negotiate and there being time. Right now neither France or Ireland will consider removal of the backstop. This could be typical political postering but 60days ...

Quote:

Why do you think it is FUD when I just conclude a prediction of all this.

You are being inconsistent and disingenuous. You are the one that made the claim Boris voted for Maya's deal with ZERO citation. I even provided you with the legal results of all THREE votes and yet you still held that stance. That is lying, that is spreading FUD. You are the one that stated the EU would blockage UK with no citation, that is FUD and a declaration of war.

Quote:

When you say Johnson wants to pay 9Bn, and I say, if paying nothing, there will be by chance a judge in the EU, who could seize UK property, this would block any trade! That is the only reason Johnson wants to pay 9Bn, isn't it?

All I did was re-iterate what Boris said, he was the one that said 9Bn...
Where the hell has seizing property come from! There is ZERO legal basis that UK owe anything, UK accountants and solicitors have gone over it. If the EU seized UK assets in the EU that would be illegal.
The £39Bn that May and Barnier agreed has ZERO legal basis, this has been rejected THREE times. In fact I dont even think all 27EU states have even voted on it... They have only voted on extending.
Art50 clearly states that without a withdrawal agreement all other obligation end. This is the legal status right now.

The UK have also stated while there is zero legal grounds to pay anything, not meeting financial obligations would sour relations especially with regards to future trade agreements

Now how the hell you span that into no pay = no trade is beyond insanity... That has NEVER been stated .... If company foo decides to not supply or trade with a UK company, that's their strategic decision (even if politically drive ... A UK pub chain is doing that for UK). For a government todo that is different and would face WTO ruling, just like which EU is about to get with Airbus

Quote:

Again something you would not admit, because you do nothing admit, nothing at all, never! That is boring.


What can I admit? How do I know what parliament will sign into law, how do you know? All you have done is provided outlandish extrapolation or lies.
Do you want an outlandish extrapolation in response to your outlandish, baseless claim that the EU would blockade UK? If the EU blockaded the UK for trade, a naval blockade equivalent to what occured during WW2 (while the UK still had trade with the commonwealth) then the only response to an illegal naval blockade by the EU is the firing of a few tridant missiles to remove the threat.

Do you see how outlandish this sounds to an outlandish claim? Nuclear weapons used to destroy the threat, because there is no threat, this is something you made up.

Trade can and does continue without a trade agreement. Trade between US and UK has continually risen over the decades BUT there is zero trade agreement between US and UK (because EU won't sign one). Trade still happens.
Trade on WTO terms will increase tarrifs but trade continues. Look at the economic assessment of noDeal, the UK gets hit and the recovers. EU gets hit harder and deeper due to asymmetric supply. Now consider your opinion, outright zero trade. Do you see how foolish that is? Ireland still does the vast amount of trade with UK and will suffer the most from a noDeal (as WTO will jack prices). Now consider noTrade *if* your wet dream was real from Brussels ...

It's not a real prospect.

What I find amazing is right now you still hold onto the words of politicans while ignoring LAW. Politicians talk, all they do is talk. Go back and look at the ludicrous claims from EU about UK economy at the start and now look at UK "despite Brexit"... Higher external investment than EU countries etc...
It's political postering and what they say is inconcequential to what they propose as bill amendments (something MEPs can't do... They can only vote on laws, not table them) and how they vote

Your claim about Boris voting for Mays deal was refuted and your only claim to it was something he said after the 2nd vote BUT the third vote is recorded as NO

Pay less to what politicans say and more to what they do. We are 60days from exit and there is zero time for discussion and theorycrafting, only action and you keep coming up with outlandish and baseless scenarios when the LEGAL default (in EU and UK) is leave and dont. Why do you trust politicians over law? Why do you trust politicans?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Naib, now beg for pardon:

Division Number: 395
Division Date: 29/03/2019

United Kingdom's withdrawal from the European Union

Aye Count: 286
Noes Count: 344

Tellers

Ayes: Andrew Stephenson (Conservative - Pendle) and Craig Whittaker (Conservative - Calder Valley)
Noes: Thangam Debbonaire (Labour - Bristol West) and Nic Dakin (Labour - Scunthorpe)

Ayes
==========
Nigel Adams (Conservative - Selby and Ainsty)
Bim Afolami (Conservative - Hitchin and Harpenden)
Peter Aldous (Conservative - Waveney)
Lucy Allan (Conservative - Telford)
David Amess (Conservative - Southend West)
Stuart Andrew (Conservative - Pudsey)
Edward Argar (Conservative - Charnwood)
Victoria Atkins (Conservative - Louth and Horncastle)
Ian Austin (Independent - Dudley North)
Richard Bacon (Conservative - South Norfolk)
Kemi Badenoch (Conservative - Saffron Walden)
Harriett Baldwin (Conservative - West Worcestershire)
Stephen Barclay (Conservative - North East Cambridgeshire)
Kevin Barron (Labour - Rother Valley)
Henry Bellingham (Conservative - North West Norfolk)
Richard Benyon (Conservative - Newbury)
Paul Beresford (Conservative - Mole Valley)
Jake Berry (Conservative - Rossendale and Darwen)
Bob Blackman (Conservative - Harrow East)
Crispin Blunt (Conservative - Reigate)
Nick Boles (Conservative - Grantham and Stamford)
Peter Bottomley (Conservative - Worthing West)
Andrew Bowie (Conservative - West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)
Ben Bradley (Conservative - Mansfield)
Karen Bradley (Conservative - Staffordshire Moorlands)
Graham Brady (Conservative - Altrincham and Sale West)
Jack Brereton (Conservative - Stoke-on-Trent South)
Steve Brine (Conservative - Winchester)
James Brokenshire (Conservative - Old Bexley and Sidcup)
Fiona Bruce (Conservative - Congleton)
Robert Buckland (Conservative - South Swindon)
Alex Burghart (Conservative - Brentwood and Ongar)
Conor Burns (Conservative - Bournemouth West)
Alistair Burt (Conservative - North East Bedfordshire)
Alun Cairns (Conservative - Vale of Glamorgan)
James Cartlidge (Conservative - South Suffolk)
Maria Caulfield (Conservative - Lewes)
Alex Chalk (Conservative - Cheltenham)
Rehman Chishti (Conservative - Gillingham and Rainham)
Jo Churchill (Conservative - Bury St Edmunds)
Colin Clark (Conservative - Gordon)
Greg Clark (Conservative - Tunbridge Wells)
Kenneth Clarke (Conservative - Rushcliffe)
Simon Clarke (Conservative - Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland)
James Cleverly (Conservative - Braintree)
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Conservative - The Cotswolds)
Th?r?se Coffey (Conservative - Suffolk Coastal)
Damian Collins (Conservative - Folkestone and Hythe)
Rosie Cooper (Labour - West Lancashire)
Alberto Costa (Conservative - South Leicestershire)
Robert Courts (Conservative - Witney)
Geoffrey Cox (Conservative - Torridge and West Devon)
Stephen Crabb (Conservative - Preseli Pembrokeshire)
Tracey Crouch (Conservative - Chatham and Aylesford)
Chris Davies (Conservative - Brecon and Radnorshire)
David T. C. Davies (Conservative - Monmouth)
Glyn Davies (Conservative - Montgomeryshire)
Mims Davies (Conservative - Eastleigh)
Philip Davies (Conservative - Shipley)
David Davis (Conservative - Haltemprice and Howden)
Caroline Dinenage (Conservative - Gosport)
Jonathan Djanogly (Conservative - Huntingdon)
Leo Docherty (Conservative - Aldershot)
Michelle Donelan (Conservative - Chippenham)
Nadine Dorries (Conservative - Mid Bedfordshire)
Steve Double (Conservative - St Austell and Newquay)
Oliver Dowden (Conservative - Hertsmere)
Jackie Doyle-Price (Conservative - Thurrock)
Richard Drax (Conservative - South Dorset)
David Duguid (Conservative - Banff and Buchan)
Iain Duncan Smith (Conservative - Chingford and Woodford Green)
Alan Duncan (Conservative - Rutland and Melton)
Philip Dunne (Conservative - Ludlow)
Michael Ellis (Conservative - Northampton North)
Tobias Ellwood (Conservative - Bournemouth East)
Charlie Elphicke (Conservative - Dover)
George Eustice (Conservative - Camborne and Redruth)
Nigel Evans (Conservative - Ribble Valley)
David Evennett (Conservative - Bexleyheath and Crayford)
Michael Fabricant (Conservative - Lichfield)
Michael Fallon (Conservative - Sevenoaks)
Frank Field (Independent - Birkenhead)
Mark Field (Conservative - Cities of London and Westminster)
Jim Fitzpatrick (Labour - Poplar and Limehouse)
Caroline Flint (Labour - Don Valley)
Vicky Ford (Conservative - Chelmsford)
Kevin Foster (Conservative - Torbay)
Liam Fox (Conservative - North Somerset)
Lucy Frazer (Conservative - South East Cambridgeshire)
George Freeman (Conservative - Mid Norfolk)
Mike Freer (Conservative - Finchley and Golders Green)
Roger Gale (Conservative - North Thanet)
Mark Garnier (Conservative - Wyre Forest)
David Gauke (Conservative - South West Hertfordshire)
Nusrat Ghani (Conservative - Wealden)
Nick Gibb (Conservative - Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Cheryl Gillan (Conservative - Chesham and Amersham)
John Glen (Conservative - Salisbury)
Zac Goldsmith (Conservative - Richmond Park)
Robert Goodwill (Conservative - Scarborough and Whitby)
Michael Gove (Conservative - Surrey Heath)
Luke Graham (Conservative - Ochil and South Perthshire)
Richard Graham (Conservative - Gloucester)
Bill Grant (Conservative - Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)
Helen Grant (Conservative - Maidstone and The Weald)
James Gray (Conservative - North Wiltshire)
Chris Grayling (Conservative - Epsom and Ewell)
Chris Green (Conservative - Bolton West)
Damian Green (Conservative - Ashford)
Andrew Griffiths (Conservative - Burton)
Kirstene Hair (Conservative - Angus)
Robert Halfon (Conservative - Harlow)
Luke Hall (Conservative - Thornbury and Yate)
Philip Hammond (Conservative - Runnymede and Weybridge)
Stephen Hammond (Conservative - Wimbledon)
Matt Hancock (Conservative - West Suffolk)
Greg Hands (Conservative - Chelsea and Fulham)
Mark Harper (Conservative - Forest of Dean)
Richard Harrington (Conservative - Watford)
Rebecca Harris (Conservative - Castle Point)
Trudy Harrison (Conservative - Copeland)
Simon Hart (Conservative - Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)
John Hayes (Conservative - South Holland and The Deepings)
Oliver Heald (Conservative - North East Hertfordshire)
James Heappey (Conservative - Wells)
Chris Heaton-Harris (Conservative - Daventry)
Peter Heaton-Jones (Conservative - North Devon)
Gordon Henderson (Conservative - Sittingbourne and Sheppey)
Nick Herbert (Conservative - Arundel and South Downs)
Lady Hermon (Independent - North Down)
Damian Hinds (Conservative - East Hampshire)
Simon Hoare (Conservative - North Dorset)
George Hollingbery (Conservative - Meon Valley)
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative - Thirsk and Malton)
John Howell (Conservative - Henley)
Nigel Huddleston (Conservative - Mid Worcestershire)
Eddie Hughes (Conservative - Walsall North)
Jeremy Hunt (Conservative - South West Surrey)
Nick Hurd (Conservative - Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner)
Alister Jack (Conservative - Dumfries and Galloway)
Margot James (Conservative - Stourbridge)
Sajid Javid (Conservative - Bromsgrove)
Robert Jenrick (Conservative - Newark)
Boris Johnson (Conservative - Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
.....
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh yes,
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/divisions/pw-2019-03-29-395-commons apologies. Now we are a law where he did
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his LBC radio show this is the exact stream position, where Nigel Farage predicts the exact same I said: Just a little riddle in the backstop clause will probably do it for the Tories with the deal :(
Like Nigel I hope the prime minister fails in his mission, but for other reason: I don't believe the earth is capable to bear another 4y of Trump presidency. An economical crash in Britain and Europe now would certainly let fail the U.S. also. As this crash is going to come anyway:
Why not a recession before the next U.S. presidential election?
And a short economical shock will bring back the lovely british people quickly into the EU again, far sooner than later.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing there is based in reality. First, the EU has refused to addresses the withdrawal agreement so what would pass is immaterial. Given the electoral math I wouldn't be surprised to find that Mr. Farage is actually incorrect about what would pass. May's deal is very unpopular and not just because of the backstop.

Second, the UK and EU economy crashing will not make it back to the US in time for the elections. In fact it may improve the US economy short term as cheaper imports from Europe become available. Not to sound condescending, but the USA is the largest economy in the world followed by China, Japan and then Germany. Your problems are quite frankly small fry to the USA and economic problems in Europe are routinely ignored in US economic forecasts. And Trump has every intention of helping the UK because he likes pissing off the EU. At best the EU will get investors to complain that growth slowed down.

Third, a recession won't stop a Trump 2020 victory. Democrats have spent all their time pissing off moderates. Right now they are more unpopular than in 2016 and Trump is far more popular than 2016 and seeing record highs in his approval and record lows in his disapproval. You get another 4 years of orange man.

Fourth, the predicted crash is entirely fictitious. It was made up by media figures trying to spark one. The reality is no indicators point to a recession. There is growth, unemployment is at record lows, etc. etc.

Fifth, a shock will not bring the UK back. You have to negotiate a full membership again and that takes years. We already know the EU considers keeping the pound to be a deal breaker and the UK considers the euro to be equally unacceptable. The reality is that shock is far more likely to tear the EU apart as more members leave in disgust at the inept political leadership. Right now your euro-skeptic parties are a minority. For how long do you think they will stay silent?

And also the minor point of the UK recovering from that shock more quickly alone than in the EU. Sorry, but a smaller economy is just quicker to recover.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Queen agrees to let Boris Johnson shut down Parliament and thwart Corbyn’s anti-Brexit plot

Well, that's that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The Queen agrees to let Boris Johnson shut down Parliament and thwart Corbyn’s anti-Brexit plot

Well, that's that.



Erm .. I don't know, somewhat ironically I'm hearing screams of 'it's not democratic !!!' - ignoring the fact that they've been sticking two fingers up to the will of the people.

But I bet something turns up to scupper things.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LolEU

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-parliament-suspended-eu-rule-law-investigation-latest-a9082606.html
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Muso wrote:
The Queen agrees to let Boris Johnson shut down Parliament and thwart Corbyn’s anti-Brexit plot

Well, that's that.



Erm .. I don't know, somewhat ironically I'm hearing screams of 'it's not democratic !!!' - ignoring the fact that they've been sticking two fingers up to the will of the people.

But I bet something turns up to scupper things.


What is ironic is J.Major wanting to start legal proceedings because Boris prorogued parliament whe he did EXACTLY the same when he was PM to try to cover up the cash for questions scandal AND it was for six weeks...
(
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/mar/19/conservatives.uk from 1997)

It is worth nothing that parliament is long overdue a queen's speech anyway to outline what laws the govn wants to get read. The last time parliament sat for this long was in 1653...

When you consider the expected autumn closure, it really is only 4days ( but a couple of weeks on the basis they can't recall parliament).
This gives the opposition 2weeks to try to stop :)


Also Muso, the queen signing is more proceedure as she couldn't deny the request as it would have dragged her into politics and cause a constitutional crisis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - so at this point, what do we all think is going to happen ?

What I want - is to leave. be nice with a (fair) agreement in place, but as the EU doesn't seem to want (fair) that - I'll take no deal.

Still think something underhand is going to happen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Still think something underhand is going to happen
I'd love to hear what you think can be done here.

From my perspective its too late to do anything. An extension may pass the house of commons but France is feeling obstinate. The EU won't grant one. Most of the public seem to agree with you according to the polls I've seen so revoking article 50 is political suicide. A no confidence vote just doesn't have time to form a new government and the unity government can't do anything anyway because of France and electoral math.

So what options does remain have that I missed?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have read now maybe a 1000 of Brexit posts. i still do not understand why the fuck did the Britons decide to leave the closest geological partner in a referendum. I do not live in the UK so could some lads explain this to me?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
i have read now maybe a 1000 of Brexit posts. i still do not understand why the fuck did the Britons decide to leave the closest geological partner in a referendum. I do not live in the UK so could some lads explain this to me?
because we wanted to
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
Still think something underhand is going to happen
I'd love to hear what you think can be done here.

From my perspective its too late to do anything. An extension may pass the house of commons but France is feeling obstinate. The EU won't grant one. Most of the public seem to agree with you according to the polls I've seen so revoking article 50 is political suicide. A no confidence vote just doesn't have time to form a new government and the unity government can't do anything anyway because of France and electoral math.

So what options does remain have that I missed?


I don't know, I'm not a constitutional expert by any means - but we've got a situation where the supposedly impartial speaker happens to be digging out archaic laws to hamper any move forward, what I fear is that there is some means to get an extension on the basis of a final referendum, the EU may agree to that - if a return is promised that particularity favours the EU.

Follow the lucre, and if that's cut off - mountains can be moved.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well a legal challenge could be raised and taken to the supreme court arguing that proroguing the gov'n in a time of crisis and thus removing MP's constitutional right with regards to the creation of laws.

This would be a hard one to pass since what was done is actually normal business for a british gov'n. This has to happen quite regularly so that a queens speech can be made to outline what bills the gov'n plan to put to parliament over the coming year. This hasn't happened for quite some time in parliament because Brexit has dominated it and no real progress in legislation has occurred...

Typically this is done before the summer recess when parliament is shut down and then re-opened with a Queens speech (so no actual bench time is lost). Likewise this isn't the first nor the last time such a standard operating process is used like this..

EVEN if this got accepted, it will take some time to get in front of the judges. Even if they succeed (and I fail to see how since this is a constitutional process), a plan to stop noDeal does not exist. The best they can do is get is when parliament re-opens mid-October get the impartial speaker to accept an amendment (to some random unrelated bill) to again delay the date BUT that would rely on EU agreeing to a date beforehand as the UK cannot unilaterally delay the date. While the EU could agree (and France is quite likely to reject) its still time
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Well a legal challenge could be raised and taken to the supreme court arguing that proroguing the gov'n in a time of crisis and thus removing MP's constitutional right with regards to the creation of laws.
Do the British courts move quickly enough though? In the USA that case would wait months to be heard, argued, and decided.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Also Muso, the queen signing is more proceedure as she couldn't deny the request as it would have dragged her into politics and cause a constitutional crisis


Interesting. I did not know that, ta.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Naib wrote:
Well a legal challenge could be raised and taken to the supreme court arguing that proroguing the gov'n in a time of crisis and thus removing MP's constitutional right with regards to the creation of laws.
Do the British courts move quickly enough though? In the USA that case would wait months to be heard, argued, and decided.
Aaages, but could be escalated due to "national emergency"

A nice picture of the calender of the dates

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/36C7/production/_108532041_new_brexit_calendar-nc.png
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