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e3k
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject: Protests in Hong Kong Reply with quote

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/hongkong-protests-protesters/
and also this:
https://www.ft.com/content/f52c298c-bf23-11e9-b350-db00d509634e

Quote:

Is Hong Kong a part of China?
The lease ended in 1997, at which time Britain returned Hong Kong to China as a Special Administrative Region (SAR) called the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China (HKSAR). ... The Basic Law defines the limited autonomy of Hong Kong.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+++
Thanks for brining it up.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throwing Hong Kong under the bus by the Brits was a sad day for freedom.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Throwing Hong Kong under the bus by the Brits was a sad day for freedom.

A deal is a deal. Unless you're referring to 1898, that is.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A deal is not a deal when you are dealing with authoritarian killers.

Cultural Revolution, anyone.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that refusing to honor the deal would accomplish is an invasion of the people's army and probably world war 3 if anyone tries to stop them. No one wins that scenario.

There really doesn't seem to be a winning play here. The protesters want democracy. China wants their loyalty. Either way there isn't anything anyone can do to intervene. Back the protesters start a war. The only practical way out I see is to let the protests do their thing and remind China we are all watching. Expect loss of life, etc. They are essentially trying a mostly non-violent revolution.

Convincing China to give up Hong Kong by buying it would certainly work, if they went for it (which they won't. Culturally China expands, not contracts, and they need to be difficult to prove they are in charge). Short of that, what exactly do you suggest?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
There really doesn't seem to be a winning play here. The protesters want democracy. China wants their loyalty. Either way there isn't anything anyone can do to intervene.

In 1989 after Beijing marial law was declared it took 14 days until June fourth the massacre happened. A template we thought will shift something meaningful happening in the eastern part of our country another 30y. But only it took 5 months the Berlin Wall fell. Perhaps the Beijing template was too bloody with eyes from West-Berlin looking literally into East-Berlin.
At the time I thought tragically so many good things happen too early. Like a flower in early spring and a bitter frozen night comes back as a zombie.

Young people of Hong Kong probably have thought about why to seize this moment:
- China normalized economical growth of only 4.8% is like a -2% recession
- China having a trade war
- Taiwan is having elections, they look at Hong Kong as a possible future come
- From the start of the Hong Kong experiment to its dedicated end in 2048 it is half way

PS:
I just found the best short description
The Economist about Hong Kong 2019-08-14
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

- Taiwan is having elections, they look at Hong Kong as a possible future come
- From the start of the Hong Kong experiment to its dedicated end in 2048 it is half way

PS:
I just found the best short description
The Economist about Hong Kong 2019-08-14

Yore link also lead to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrmGefn9Gaw
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well China is the current Matrix/Orwel system in the world with their Social Credit Scores. I would also do not like to live under such system. On the other hand those regions belong geographically under the influence of China. I do not know how this will end but i hope for the least collateral damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What nobody of us considered
Sir Malcolm Rifkind says on Sky News it would be "infinitely more complicated" than Tiananmen Square!
An intervening red army on the 7 millon territory of Hong Kong would be more like an occupation of a foreign country.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then again one only has to view Tibet to see how experienced the government is in doing that.

They do their work on so many different levels besides the straight out replacing of Tibetans with Han.

They are claiming that only the government has the right to determine who will be the next Dali Lama and they are sending people to Taoist and Buddhist monasteries all over China to be "monks" as a job position.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We in the US are next to this kind of repression if the AOC wing of the democrat party prevails.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_mzjE9v74
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_mzjE9v74
Also have a look what Beijing sponsord channel shows you about the "devide":
- Hong Kong people securing a chinese flag
- an old british man claims China is nice
- weapons found in Hong Kong
etc ...

What really worries me: Some 2 weeks ago
it wasn't much about Hong Kong in this channel (once in three days)
but since the airport in Hong Kong was blocked by these students
this channel which is called CGTN ( the url has CCTVNEWSbeijing)
brings a flood of more than 20 videos per day about the issue of Hong Kong
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/19/twitter-facebook-disinformation-hong-kong-1468587

Why were they in the first place
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/19/twitter-facebook-disinformation-hong-kong-1468587

Why were they in the first place
Such government accounts can disturb a normal Twitter user quiet a lot, experienced this weirdly with turkish accounts myself a year ago.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

USA, UK and every other self-professed, self-righteous champions of democracy and regime change have thrown Hong Kong under the bus.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
USA, UK and every other self-professed, self-righteous champions of democracy and regime change have thrown Hong Kong under the bus.
And I suppose you can enlighten us with a viable solution that avoids unnecessary loss of life?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Stop your addiction of iPhone (iDevices).

Send all your manufacturing to Mexico.

Two problems solved at once. No more immigrants at your doorstep and China cut to size.

You're welcome.

Also, why isn't a regime change an option for enlightenrati in China?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And all that helps Hong Kong how exactly?

Quote:
Also, why isn't a regime change an option for enlightenrati in China?
You may have noticed, they have a rather large military with generally high support from their citizenry.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
And all that helps Hong Kong how exactly?

Quote:
Also, why isn't a regime change an option for enlightenrati in China?
You may have noticed, they have a rather large military with generally high support from their citizenry.

Didn't you know, real life is like a James bond film where overthrowing a superpower only takes one person
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Yes. Stop your addiction of iPhone (iDevices).

Send all your manufacturing to Mexico.

Two problems solved at once. No more immigrants at your doorstep and China cut to size.

You're welcome.

Also, why isn't a regime change an option for enlightenrati in China?

well notageek nailed this time, or maybe notageek is an avatar for Trump trolling on gentoo forums. or maybe Trump's mentors are hooked up to this thread and did think: "That notageek speaks the language of our tribe." when reading your post... Anyway here it is:

Quote:
An Nvidia spokesperson said its partners are already moving production to other countries in a statement:

"There's relatively little direct impact on us. We understand that most of our partners have moved or are moving their impacted assembly work to Taiwan and Mexico, which aren't affected by the tariffs."


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/27/trumps-tariffs-on-chinese-goods-to-hit-amd-nvidia-gaming-graphics-cards.html
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First (warning) shot fired... https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3024289/hong-kong-police-officer-fired-warning-shot-air-because-he

How long until outright oppression?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get that Brexit going and annect again
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
How long until outright oppression?

Yes, a story repeating tragigcally the countrys history?
When demonstations go violent, is this because of foolishness?
Or is Beijing making use of agents provocateur?
Be aware, there is coming soonishly the birthday of the Peoples Republic of China!
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