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berferd
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: No! More forums! Reply with quote

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b498bcfaf34ffc355eaba3afafd1ee96
https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20190210-summary.txt
https://bugs.gentoo.org/677824

Mod edit: Punctuation corrections in the title. @berferd, it's your post. If you object, I'll put it back. — JRG
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mike155
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/c033187cbbfe8677a5177a0af51af170 wrote:
And parts of forums should rather go away sooner than later, given how even moderators take part in highly questionable threads. That mess also reflects on Gentoo as a whole.

What is going on here?
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people have their brains infected with leftism. They call everything that contradicts their agenda "alt-right" and want it banned. OTW is one of rare places on the internet where free speech is still existing. I think they are trying to shut it down.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

read from here

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8306846.html#8306846

Some of the arguments are moot as they affect other aspects of the forums. Completely losing the forums would be a poor step as a lot of support goes on here, for instance dealing with fallout from council decisions ( eg https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1096898-highlight-licence+license.html https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1010096.html https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-870175-highlight-libav.html )

Now hiding OTW from the spiders might make sense
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Some people have their brains infected with leftism.

Well that starts this to become an OTW thread. Without defending those people, I'll just point out that there are plenty on the right. Just look at recent action from the Alabama and Missouri legislatures. Know-nothing-ism isn't a characteristic solely from the Left.

I'm surprised and disappointed in you.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Completely losing the forums would be a poor step as a lot of support goes on here


Official Gentoo forums may close - that would be a loss indeed. But nobody can stop new independent Gentoo Users forums emerging.

@Tony0945

I was talking about free speech, not who is right and who is wrong. That said, I haven't seen yet the right wing trying to ban free speech.
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skellr
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fgo wrote:
In total there are 149 users online :: 3 Registered, 2 Hidden and 144 Guests [ Administrator ] [ Moderator ] [ Developer ]
Most users ever online was 1850 on Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:17 pm

Yeah, things are really getting out of hand nowadays... Must be a huge strain on infra hardware to keep up with the growing demand.


Last edited by skellr on Mon May 27, 2019 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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asturm
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a good number of bigots frequenting OTW, and that is not something Gentoo should be associated with. Hiding it from public should not be controversial and may at least keep the number at bay.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on track, Gentoo without forums is what? Funtoo without Daniel Robbins.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigot - from dictionary - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Being intolerant towards those people does not make us bigots? Whether anything like OTW should be part of any technical forum is a separate question. I personally am proud we have something like OTW. Not that I frequent it, too spicy, I need to be in a special mood to dive there.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Back on track, Gentoo without forums is what? Funtoo without Daniel Robbins.
yes... back on track. Exactly...
What distro does not have a support forum (in fact what distro which has a support forum doesn't have an off-topic section...)

As I said there are a lot of controversial decisions by the council which have resulted in support threads being created. The irony is not lost that closure of the forums by the council was raised...
The community making their own forums would result in the loss of a substantial amount of information which is still valid.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Being intolerant towards those people does not make us bigots?

That's a false equivalence.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
I was talking about free speech, not who is right and who is wrong. That said, I haven't seen yet the right wing trying to ban free speech.

I have. But this is not the place to discuss it. I can't resist saying one more thing though. There are Liberals, there are Conservatives, and there are hate-filled people who use politics as an excuse to play dominance games. The latter masquerade on both ends of the spectrum.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Being intolerant towards those people does not make us bigots?

That's a false equivalence.

Lets construct a situation where one individual is right and the other one is wrong [about something]. Both are unwilling to change their opinion. According to the definition of "bigot" both can call each other bigot. Doesn't this show you how wrong is to start name-calling and use it as a criteria who is allowed to the forums and who is not? The idea of free world is everyone is treated equally and has equal rights. Even those who you think are bigots. Perhaps you are just wrong and they are right? Or perhaps it is the other way around. Regardless, calling names will lead nowhere.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Regardless, calling names will lead nowhere.

Glad we agree. If you and/or asturm want to consider this further, perhaps the moderator should cut the whole discussion and place it in OTW. Then the discussion "official forums yes/no" can proceed in this thread. Or is the question "should gentoo drop OTW?" Or perhaps there are two questions here besides "is it the Left or the Right ( or both) who are antispeech/bigots".
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945,

official forums yes/no is exactly what is discussed. And the reasons behind it. I'm questioning is the free spirit of these forums the cause? And please, don't paint everything black and white. Yes there is Left and there is Right. There is also neutral. This is where the common sense resides. Also is true Left is nowadays famous trying to shut down everything that does not agree with them. I'm sure you can find a Right somewhere guilty of this, you also can find a police officer who committed a crime and a priest who is sinning. You said lets stop this kind of discussion. I agree and I stopped, but why don't you stop? In any case, I'm out.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

???? Jaglover, I did stop. If you want to continue a partisan political argument, I'll accommodate you on OTW or any other forum you like.
I will NOT accept your thesis that the Left in general is trying to suppress free speech. I've been offering olive branches but you seem to require capitulation. that I will not offer.

Again, let's leave partisan politics for elsewhere and discuss Gentoo politics. You are a Gentoo resource and have been very helpful to me in particular. Don't go away mad and don't go away at all.
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duane
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see the developer's point of view right here. If I were new to gentoo and stumbled onto this too-politicized thread, it would probably turn me off of the whole distribution. That's an irrational reaction, but very human.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Some people have their brains infected with leftism. They call everything that contradicts their agenda "alt-right" and want it banned. OTW is one of rare places on the internet where free speech is still existing. I think they are trying to shut it down.


Proposed solution: Let's all get blue hair avatars and disclaimers in sigs stating everything we say in otw is sarcasm.
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Chiitoo
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The forums are not going away, at least not right now. :]

That said, we (the admins and mods team) have been pondering upon the fate of Off the Wall (already before any of the other developers mentioned anything about it), and something is definitely happening... either before, or at The Gentoo Big Forum Upgrade.

In other words, soon™.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see blocking bot access to OTW, that way it won't get kept up with by the search engines.
As for the rest of the back and forth, I don't care about it either way.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
that way it won't get kept up with by the search engines.

google will lost 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 results on "obama" :(
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Maitreya
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So "something" is going to happen to OTW and within 3 posts we are on a left/right "political discussion"
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I've always wished there was a dedicated section on the forum for Linux questions not specific to Gentoo outside of OTW. I can't tell you how much. Whenever I've had such a question there's no other user base in the world I'd rather ask than this one, but I've barely ever been able to stomach browsing the topics in OTW let alone read or post there. Above all, I hope any talk of no forums at all is just a vicious rumor.

Tom
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

We're looking into that as well. Something that fits in the rather large gap between Unsupported Software and Off the Wall.

- John
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