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curmudgeon
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Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 1723
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 Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:52 am Post subject: Is anyone running a *kit free system? |
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| As I prepare to install Gentoo on another machine, I want to consider environments without consolekit and polkit. I wonder in any forum members run such systems, hove they have set them up, and the impact on usability (if any) from not having consolekit and polkit. Thank you in advance. |
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charles17
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 3663
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Is anyone running a *kit free system? |
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| curmudgeon wrote: | | ..., I want to consider environments without consolekit and polkit. ... |
No consolekit here and no polkit. No problems. Packages used |
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Ionen
Developer
Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 2480
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I have no consolekit/polkit/elogind/systemd myself, I don't even use startx/xinit or a display manager either, and my .bash_profile starts rootless X directly from a autologin console in the .bash_profile (if detected to be on the right tty), plus trap signals for when killed to cleanup and close everything cleanly 
I still do a few things that consolekit/Xsession/xdm would do though, like set a cleaned proper XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, X permissions, start dbus + update variables (what I use happen to need it, but there are plenty of things that don't), have sudo rules to do things like shutdown (consolekit also handles this so your DE can have a shutdown button), among other things.
But all this manual setting up is not for everyone, purpose of those things is mostly so you don't have to worry about anything and it's done for you. But if using minimalist environment (rather than a full blown Desktop Environment), it's often just useless fluff.
Ultimately be good to know what kind of environment you're looking for, if you want to use something full blown like Gnome you're better off using them as-is. Looking at the recent poll thread may give ideas, anything using window managers directly is often far less limiting (despite being a DE, xfce4 is also fairly versatile and lets you remove components, at most no consolekit means no shutdown button, mentioning because it's what I "kinda" use myself, but I heavily stripped it down and is just a window manager + panel at this point) |
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Gatsby
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 116
Location: 127.0.0.1
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389292
Guru
Joined: 26 Mar 2019
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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-elogind -consolekit -policykit
bspwm, no login manager, single sit machine, no problems or lack of functionality that I would need. |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Never had any of it installed. Half a web browser engine to avoid writing 5 lines of acpid config? No. |
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fturco
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Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 1181
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have neither polkit nor consolekit on my Gentoo system. No problems so far. |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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No kits, no pam, no systemd. no elogind. Launching Mate 1.12 with XDM.
Unfortunately a few packages require dbus. Trying to be RedHat free. |
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AJM
Apprentice
Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 163
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're getting the picture by now, but I removed all the "kits" from my system a year or two ago when I took the trouble to see what they were actually needed for (and the answer was nothing, so far as I'm concerned.)
I'm using OpenRC / no PAM / XDM / Windowmaker. No issues whatsoever, only the benefits of a leaner system. (I should note that I'm not totally against PAM in principle - I've used some of its more esoteric features on some systems, but it's totally unnecessary for my desktop PC.) |
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mike155
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Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 4386
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| curmudgeon wrote: | | Is anyone running a *kit free system? |
| Ant P. wrote: | | Never had any of it installed. |
| AJM wrote: | | but I removed all the "kits" from my system a year or two ago |
Really?
What about:
- app-portage/gentoolkit
- app-crypt/p11-kit
- net-misc/netkit-telnetd
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Gentoolkit is not a redHat kit and has resemblance to them.
No, I don't have the other two and never heard of them.
EDIT: no resemblance
Last edited by Tony0945 on Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 52205
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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$ eix kit shows
| Code: | [I] app-crypt/p11-kit
[I] app-portage/gentoolkit
[I] dev-java/javatoolkit |
all the other hits are not installed.
I don't have a device manager either.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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curmudgeon
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Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 1723
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ionen wrote: | | Ultimately be good to know what kind of environment you're looking for, if you want to use something full blown like Gnome you're better off using them as-is. Looking at the recent poll thread may give ideas, anything using window managers directly is often far less limiting (despite being a DE, xfce4 is also fairly versatile and lets you remove components, at most no consolekit means no shutdown button, mentioning because it's what I "kinda" use myself, but I heavily stripped it down and is just a window manager + panel at this point) |
I guess what I want is something that doesn't try to do everything. I would like it (this will go to a relatively non-technical user) so that ordinary users could mount removable media, if possible. If I understand, that rules out udisks, and (since it requires udisks) KDE. Does some way exist to set that up in other desktop environments?
As a (rather long) aside, my biggest gripe comes from polkit (post 0.104) requiring a complete javascript engine - something I definitely don't want on any of my machines. To make matters worse, polkit specifically requires spidermonkey, a complete piece of bloat that happens to come from Mozilla. For me, Mozilla ranks just below Poettering on my hate list of people/organizations involved with Linux (that came from all of the years they kept telling me "you don't need a 64-bit browser" - yes, I did, as I had a 64-bit pure system incapable of running 32-bit binaries).
Anyway, I just did a scan on the portage tree of all applications that still require an aotoconf from the last millennium. There are the four Mozilla packages (firefox, seamonkey, spidermonkey, and thunderbird), of course. Aside from some older xemacs builds still in the tree, the only other apps that need autoconf 2.1 are pchar (which hasn't seen an update for fifteen years, and seems like a candidate for removal) and grass. That's it. I amused myself last night reading their attempts to upgrade their build system. About five years ago, they admitted they "haven't figured out how to [get rid of autoconf entirely] yet," but said they were "pretty much already well down the road on" writing their own macro replacements. Still no sign of that. It always scares me when people don't know their own software well enough to build it without requiring something as archaic as autoconf 2.1. That alone leads me to not trust it. |
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charles17
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 3663
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| curmudgeon wrote: | | ... If I understand, that rules out udisks, and (since it requires udisks) KDE. |
sys-fs/udisks would pull in all the trouble, even without any DE | Code: | $ USE=-consolekit emerge -pvt sys-fs/udisks
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=sys-auth/polkit-0.110" has unmet requirements.
- sys-auth/polkit-0.115-r4::gentoo USE="gtk -consolekit -elogind -examples -introspection -jit -kde -nls -pam (-selinux) -systemd -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
exactly-one-of ( consolekit elogind systemd )
(dependency required by "sys-fs/udisks-2.8.4::gentoo" [ebuild])
(dependency required by "sys-fs/udisks" [argument]) |
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Blind_Sniper
Guru
Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... If I understand, that rules out udisks, and (since it requires udisks) KDE. |
Without udisks Device Notifier will not work, and Dolphin will not show partitions at the left pane.
Unfortunately udisks pulls almost all the kits in, because mounting partitions by clicking notifier (or partitions at left pane) requires it.
Though, as an alternative, you can launch konsole and mount partitions by hand on every device connection.
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charles17
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Posts: 3663
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Gatsby
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 116
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| charles17 wrote: | | curmudgeon wrote: | | ... If I understand, that rules out udisks, and (since it requires udisks) KDE. |
sys-fs/udisks would pull in all the trouble, even without any DE | Code: | $ USE=-consolekit emerge -pvt sys-fs/udisks
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=sys-auth/polkit-0.110" has unmet requirements.
- sys-auth/polkit-0.115-r4::gentoo USE="gtk -consolekit -elogind -examples -introspection -jit -kde -nls -pam (-selinux) -systemd -test" ABI_X86="(64)"
The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
exactly-one-of ( consolekit elogind systemd )
(dependency required by "sys-fs/udisks-2.8.4::gentoo" [ebuild])
(dependency required by "sys-fs/udisks" [argument]) |
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No, it is quite easy. With slightly modified ebuilds of kde-frameworks/solid and kde-plasma/powerdevil in a local repository kde5 (plasma5) is running on my gentoo systems without consolekit, elogind or systemd. I removed the consolekit, upower and udisks2 dependencies from mentioned ebuilds. The login manager sddm works as expected, only shutdown and reboot are dysfunctional. But since I don't need a seat manager, it is no discomfort for me to shutdown and reboot conventionally with shutdown/reboot.
| Code: | gcomp ~ # diff -u /usr/portage/kde-frameworks/solid/solid-5.64.0-r1.ebuild /usr/local/portage/kde-frameworks/solid/solid-5.64.0-r1.ebuild
--- /usr/portage/kde-frameworks/solid/solid-5.64.0-r1.ebuild 2019-11-12 23:40:02.000000000 +0100
+++ /usr/local/portage/kde-frameworks/solid/solid-5.64.0-r1.ebuild 2019-11-13 18:12:47.781659930 +0100
@@ -20,14 +20,13 @@
>=dev-qt/qtdeclarative-${QTMIN}:5
>=dev-qt/qtwidgets-${QTMIN}:5
>=dev-qt/qtxml-${QTMIN}:5
- sys-fs/udisks:2
virtual/libudev:=
"
DEPEND="${RDEPEND}
test? ( >=dev-qt/qtconcurrent-${QTMIN}:5 )
"
-PATCHES=( "${FILESDIR}/${P}-udisks2-media-change-detection.patch" )
+#PATCHES=( "${FILESDIR}/${P}-udisks2-media-change-detection.patch" )
pkg_postinst() {
ecm_pkg_postinst |
| Code: | gcomp ~ # diff -u /usr/portage/kde-plasma/powerdevil/powerdevil-5.17.3.ebuild /usr/local/portage/kde-plasma/powerdevil/powerdevil-5.17.3.ebuild
--- /usr/portage/kde-plasma/powerdevil/powerdevil-5.17.3.ebuild 2019-11-12 23:40:02.000000000 +0100
+++ /usr/local/portage/kde-plasma/powerdevil/powerdevil-5.17.3.ebuild 2019-11-13 18:15:52.604116154 +0100
@@ -18,7 +18,7 @@
DEPEND="
>=kde-frameworks/kactivities-${KFMIN}:5
- >=kde-frameworks/kauth-${KFMIN}:5[policykit]
+ >=kde-frameworks/kauth-${KFMIN}:5
>=kde-frameworks/kcompletion-${KFMIN}:5
>=kde-frameworks/kconfig-${KFMIN}:5
>=kde-frameworks/kconfigwidgets-${KFMIN}:5
@@ -52,7 +52,7 @@
"
RDEPEND="${DEPEND}
>=kde-plasma/kde-cli-tools-${PVCUT}:5
- >=sys-power/upower-0.9.23
+ sys-power/pm-utils
"
src_configure() { |
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Blind_Sniper
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Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: |
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It suitable for known devices which you use permanently, but even this case it's very uncomfortable, in fact you still need to open konsole and mount it by hand
And this method is unusable for accidental attachable devices which UUIDs and labels you do not know.
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cboldt
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1046
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Try sys-apps/uam to mount removable media.
"Simple udev-based automounter for removable USB media" |
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Blind_Sniper
Guru
Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's an automounter, what it will do on attaching device with dozen of partitions? Mount them all? Even if you do not need it? LOL.
And what about unmounting? Will unmount automatically???
And will it add all the partitions on the left Dolphin panel? It's the main udisks feature.
I used to use system without udisks (I used scripts, udev rules, pmount e.t.c.). Eventually I installed udisks with all the dependencies crap back. Just to have left panel populated with partitions
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| GTK will list anything in /etc/fstab and mount it on click if the mount opts permit it. No udisks necessary. |
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Tom_
Guru
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 443
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've just removed consolekit, polkit and udisks from my system.
I put -consolekit -policykit in /etc/portage/make.conf and played with some masked use flags :
| Code: | thomas@gentoo ~ % grep kit /etc/portage/profile/package.use.mask
kde-frameworks/kauth policykit
net-print/hplip policykit
thomas@gentoo ~ % grep kit /etc/portage/profile/use.mask
-policykit
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As I use Plasma, I had to modify the solid ebuild to get rid of the udisks dependency.
To reboot/shutdown my computer properly, I use the following script (called from a shortcut in the menu or the taskbar)
| Code: | thomas@gentoo ~ % cat .config/shortcuts/reboot.sh
#!/bin/sh
qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 0 2
sleep 5
sudo /sbin/reboot
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With the right sudo config :
| Code: | thomas@gentoo ~ % sudo grep halt /etc/sudoers
%wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /sbin/halt, /sbin/reboot
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I also installed uam to automount usb drives. It works so far. I still have to find a solution to properly umount these devices. |
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curmudgeon
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Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 1723
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have found nirvana:
https://lumina-desktop.org/
| Quote: |
Written in C++/Qt5 and is not based on any existing desktop’s code-base, and does not use any of the Linux-based desktop frameworks (ConsoleKit, PolicyKit, D-Bus, systemd, etc..)
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Thanks to all who replied, particularly Gatsby (and Tom_), who shared their tricks for using kde without udisks/consolekit/polkit. I might take that up at some point in the future (and I hope that KDE follows up on their pledge to become "more modular").
Most of the methods for mounting removable media appear to depend on (very) inactive software (as if all of the developers just abandoned their projects once udisks became popular). I believe I will look at autofs for now, mostly because I know that the code still gets looked at from time to time. :) |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8787
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| curmudgeon wrote: | | (and I hope that KDE follows up on their pledge to become "more modular"). |
'Becoming modular' has happened long ago; software made by KDE is so modular you can use any part as long as it does not depend on stuff you don't like; but it was never meant in a sense to provide a stone age version of the Plasma desktop.
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dmpogo
Advocate
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 3180
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| asturm wrote: |
'Becoming modular' has happened long ago; software made by KDE is so modular you can use any part as long as it does not depend on stuff you don't like; |
Which can of course easily invalidate any modularity if one wishes  . KDE is not too bad in this regard, but say why it uncoditionally depends on wayland ? Surely a
typical user has one or another, X or wayland, but shouldn't be needing both at the same time. |
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