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Muso
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
when Trump was talking about Mexican rapists, which study was he referring to?


The numerous illegal alien criminals that have raped people in the USA.

US prisons have a lot of illegal alien criminals in them.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
starts stupid fights with NFL players.
Starts, or responds? I'm aware of the latter, but don't keep up with anything on social media, so I'm not aware of the former.


It's rather easy for the president to just stay out of it. So, yes, if the president's office is getting into a tiff with the NFL, I think it's fair to say he started it.
Staying out of it is entirely different from responding to comments of an antagonistic (or worse) nature. But I'm only aware of a few specific instances.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
when Trump was talking about Mexican rapists, which study was he referring to?


The numerous illegal alien criminals that have raped people in the USA.

US prisons have a lot of illegal alien criminals in them.


not stats.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
when Trump was talking about Mexican rapists, which study was he referring to?


The numerous illegal alien criminals that have raped people in the USA.

US prisons have a lot of illegal alien criminals in them.


not stats.

There is this thing called duckduckgo dot com

If you are too lazy to click the link:

Quote:
Immigrants accounted for more than 30 percent of the federal prison population and nearly all of them are confirmed or suspected illegal immigrants, the government said in a new report Tuesday.
The government said it had 57,820 immigrants in its prisons as of Dec. 31, Homeland Security and the Justice Department said in the joint report..... Every crime committed by an illegal alien is, by definition, a crime that should have been prevented,” he said in releasing the report. “It is outrageous that tens of thousands of Americans are dying every year because of the drugs and violence brought over our borders illegally and that taxpayers have been forced, year after year, to pay millions of dollars to incarcerate tens of thousands of illegal aliens.


While not all of those incarcerated are convicted of rape, some are. Some have committed murder, and some for assault, and some for theft. And this is just Federal prisons. Add all the drunk drivers, rapists, murderers, etc in state and local jails.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
when Trump was talking about Mexican rapists, which study was he referring to?


The numerous illegal alien criminals that have raped people in the USA.

US prisons have a lot of illegal alien criminals in them.


not stats.


DOJ releases data on incarceration rates of illegal immigrants

A quick search found that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In correlation to this, a short time after this there was a mass killing in malaysia/philipines, if my memory guides me right here?
I think it was in the number of about 50 people who died. The victims was christians attending a church to celebrate eastern.

Here, the public service of svt called it...wait for it...worshipers of eastern was killed by...(whatever).

So, that happened. No outcry, no nothing. Just silence.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
In correlation to this, a short time after this there was a mass killing in malaysia/philipines, if my memory guides me right here?
I think it was in the number of about 50 people who died. The victims was christians attending a church to celebrate eastern.

Here, the public service of svt called it...wait for it...worshipers of eastern was killed by...(whatever).

So, that happened. No outcry, no nothing. Just silence.


"Easter Worshipers" instead of just saying Christians. And this was right after the Ozzy lunatic killed a bunch of Muslims in NZ, and the media didn't call them "Friday prayer adherents". but rather just called them Muslims. The slant of the MSM is beyond obnoxious, it is incredibly divisive.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
sugar wrote:
Muso wrote:
The guy in El Paso hated Mexicans, the guy in Ohio was a left wing, Antifa fan, and supporter of Elizabeth Warren...

Trump blames video games.

FFS


do you have an unbiased news source backing this up.

Or since, as you claim, every news source must have bias, can you cite your source and what you perceive to be the bias inherent and how you interpreted the source to remove bias?

Since you are making the claim. You've apparently done the leg work already. You may as well share.


You really must suck at doing research. Read the El Paso shooter's manifesto, and check out the Ohio shooters social media.

As for Trump blaming video games (and the Internet), I'm sure 2 seconds on a search engine can find the data you need.


you're the one making the claim. Not me.

Is it an unreasonable expectation that a person can back up their own claims?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
when Trump was talking about Mexican rapists, which study was he referring to?


The numerous illegal alien criminals that have raped people in the USA.

US prisons have a lot of illegal alien criminals in them.


not stats.


DOJ releases data on incarceration rates of illegal immigrants

A quick search found that.


This is only federal prison. The prison and jail system combined has over 2.3 million.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
This is only federal prison. The prison and jail system combined has over 2.3 million.


GZ for sprinting into that trap. Because of "sanctuary state" laws, and numerous other states not reporting to the federal government about the actual number of illegal immigrant criminals in the non-federal system, the numbers are actually much higher.

Here's your sign.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
While not all of those incarcerated are convicted of rape, some are.


Yup. How many? oh, did the article you posted not answer my question AT ALL?

Yours and Muso's posted articles, while thoroughly fascinating for their sensational headlines, don't at all answer the question posed.

What's the support Trump has for his claim about mexicans and rape?

What's interesting is that we can all guess for what crime those people are most likely being detained: immigration crimes. While I agree these are serious (unlike most liberals, I don't think open borders are an answer and your border should be secured), they are not rape.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:

What's interesting is that we can all guess for what crime those people are most likely being detained: immigration crimes. While I agree these are serious (unlike most liberals, I don't think open borders are an answer and your border should be secured), they are not rape.
Well, you are wrong again. Don't guess.... inform yourself.
According to the Government Accountability Office, 12% are in prison for violent crimes as murder and rape. 15% for burglary and theft. 24% for drug offenses, and the remaining for DUI, forgery, weapons and immigration. So far less than half of all illegals are in prison for immigration.

Quote:
The first report (GAO-05-337R) found that criminal aliens (both legal and illegal) make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet according to the Center for Immigration Studies, non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.
The findings in the second report (GAO-05-646R) are even more disturbing. This report looked at the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens that “entered the country illegally and were still illegally in the country at the time of their incarceration in federal or state prison or local jail during fiscal year 2003.” Those 55,322 illegal aliens had been arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and had committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.
Out of all of the arrests, 12 percent were for violent crimes such as murder, robbery, assault and sex-related crimes; 15 percent were for burglary, larceny, theft and property damage; 24 percent were for drug offenses; and the remaining offenses were for DUI, fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, weapons, immigration, and obstruction of justice.


TFA

Dude, it really is not that difficult to learn the truth. There are tens of thousands of illegals in our prison system. 12% of that is over 6,000 rapes or murders, not to mention all of the families whose lives are ruined because of a drunk driver, or theft, fraud, or forgery. Plus each prisoner committed, on average, 13 crimes.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can an immigrant be a criminal? You have to know and have to abide the laws of the country you live in. But think of it: A mexican standing near by the border, doesn't have to know US laws. Now he does a step aside into the USA. He did this step being in Mexico.
I don't want to justify immigration or to critic border control.
What is the rationale this mexican guy ever was criminal?
There is no moment in time he was criminal doing the step onto US lands.
The most important principle in any country with "rule of law" is, you cannot criminalize any human being for a thing there was no law about it, when this person did the "crime".

PS: If there is a mexican law, which forbids doing the step into the US, but I don't know of one such law. Although there had been such law criminalizing this kind of step from east to west Germany once upon a time. President Reagan shouted against: "Tear down this wall"

PS2: Though you can criminalize hiring illegal aliens as a theft to the social security/taxes system. Put these managers in jail for the hours they hired against the law! Your immigration crisis in the U.S. would be solved immedeately.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
How can an immigrant be a criminal? You have to know and have to abide the laws of the country you live in. But think of it: A mexican standing near by the border, doesn't have to know US laws. Now he does a step aside into the USA. He did this step being in Mexico.
I don't want to justify immigration or to critic border control.
What is the rationale this mexican guy ever was criminal?
There is no moment in time he was criminal doing the step onto US lands.
The most important principle in any country with "rule of law" is, you cannot criminalize any human being for a thing there was no law about it, when this person did the "crime".

PS: If there is a mexican law, which forbids doing the step into the US, but I don't know of one such law. Although there had been such law criminalizing this kind of step from east to west Germany once upon a time. President Reagan shouted against: "Tear down this wall"

PS2: Though you can criminalize hiring illegal aliens as a theft to the social security/taxes system. Put these managers in jail for the hours they hired against the law! Your immigration crisis in the U.S. would be solved immedeately.
If the person wants to come to the US, he/she can go to a point of entry and apply. One cannot just cross at some unoccupied point. Can you just walk across the border to a non EU country without permission or a visa? Is this something unique with the USA?

I do not believe you are so obtuse as to believe your hypothetical Mexican was ignorant about border laws. These people are intentionally breaking US law, and they fucking well know it.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich, that made literally no sense at all. The act of existing in the country without the appropriate status, either birthright or legal paperwork, is a crime.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can define a criminal character as such:
Someone, who knows the laws or is obliged to know. This person harms society by willfully breaking the law. Even such person can be a hero, if he saved lives by breaking the law, when otherwise a deadly incident would have happened.

The mexican guy is not obliged to know U.S. laws. Only general laws: not to kill, not to steel
(Though there are amazonian clans, where there is nothing like possession!)

By both your logic:
Every outerspace alien coming to earth would be a criminal.
Perhaps these must be incarcerated at area51 ... although sad for "contact" fans ...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot comes down to the crime and the punishment.

Considering that deportation and being told that it is illegal may be the only punishment, there seems little to be argued. The person is then aware that a second illegal entry would be a crime, and could be considered a repeat offender.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

[edit] Aha. pjp got there first

[edit again] I'm sure that your space aliens would, because of their advanced nature, research local laws and customs before making First Contact.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Washington Times wrote:
Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
The mexican guy is not obliged to know U.S. laws.
If the Mexican guy crosses the boarder then he absolutely is. Would you accept the argument that a Muslim immigrant is allowed to rape young girls until he is informed that it is illegal? Because raping non-Muslims isn't exactly a crime where some of these guys come from.
ulenrich wrote:

By both your logic:
Every outerspace alien coming to earth would be a criminal.
Yes, they would. In fact, landing without permission would be an act of war. No nation allows another to land and disembark in their territory without permission.

However, given the signficance of such an event it would likely be overlooked assuming the contact was remotely peaceful.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
The mexican guy is not obliged to know U.S. laws.
If the Mexican guy crosses the boarder then he absolutely is. Would you accept the argument that a Muslim immigrant is allowed to rape young girls until he is informed that it is illegal? Because raping non-Muslims isn't exactly a crime where some of these guys come from.

The rapist is doing his criminal action in the country.
But there is no moment in time an immigrant is criminal doing his immigration step into the country.
But this step was declared criminal by eastern european contries during Cold War time. And still it is criminal doing for every guy in North Korea doing his step into freedom. And for every turkish considered a member of "Fethullah Gülen".

The criminalization of immigration by no means can be considered a legislation of a proper
Rechtsstaat or in your terms
Rule of Law

Nevertheless this my legal argument does not hinder any country to repel immigration in a way the UN allows to do.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
You can define a criminal character as such:
Someone, who knows the laws or is obliged to know. This person harms society by willfully breaking the law. Even such person can be a hero, if he saved lives by breaking the law, when otherwise a deadly incident would have happened.

The mexican guy is not obliged to know U.S. laws. Only general laws: not to kill, not to steel
(Though there are amazonian clans, where there is nothing like possession!)

By both your logic:
Every outerspace alien coming to earth would be a criminal.
Perhaps these must be incarcerated at area51 ... although sad for "contact" fans ...


Beats getting a slimy, squiggley spider thing stuck to your face.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

But this step was declared criminal by eastern european contries during Cold War time.

It was illegal to LEAVE the country. It wasn't illegal in West Germany for a slave from the DDR to escape the commie fucks and make it across the border to the west.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09bM_dtYbpE
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:

What's interesting is that we can all guess for what crime those people are most likely being detained: immigration crimes. While I agree these are serious (unlike most liberals, I don't think open borders are an answer and your border should be secured), they are not rape.
Well, you are wrong again. Don't guess.... inform yourself.
According to the Government Accountability Office, 12% are in prison for violent crimes as murder and rape. 15% for burglary and theft. 24% for drug offenses, and the remaining for DUI, forgery, weapons and immigration. So far less than half of all illegals are in prison for immigration.

Quote:
The first report (GAO-05-337R) found that criminal aliens (both legal and illegal) make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet according to the Center for Immigration Studies, non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.
The findings in the second report (GAO-05-646R) are even more disturbing. This report looked at the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens that “entered the country illegally and were still illegally in the country at the time of their incarceration in federal or state prison or local jail during fiscal year 2003.” Those 55,322 illegal aliens had been arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and had committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.
Out of all of the arrests, 12 percent were for violent crimes such as murder, robbery, assault and sex-related crimes; 15 percent were for burglary, larceny, theft and property damage; 24 percent were for drug offenses; and the remaining offenses were for DUI, fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, weapons, immigration, and obstruction of justice.


TFA

Dude, it really is not that difficult to learn the truth. There are tens of thousands of illegals in our prison system. 12% of that is over 6,000 rapes or murders, not to mention all of the families whose lives are ruined because of a drunk driver, or theft, fraud, or forgery. Plus each prisoner committed, on average, 13 crimes.


Watch your sleight of hand: violent crime includes two things other than homicide and rape: assault and robbery. So, 12% violent does not necessary translate to 6000 rapes and murder (unless your 12% translates to just rapes and murders).

Second, 12% violent crime is actually quite low compared to americans, where more than half are violent offenders (those incarcerated for more than 1 year. that's the only stat I found).

Finally, still doesn't justify Trump highlighting rape and mexicans. Just question your guy for a second. is he merely stating fact, or is he pandering to his base? it's completely clear what he is doing, and he's an asshole for doing it. This is my point. I agree, securing the border is important. I agree that illegal immigrants committing crimes is terrible. but calling the rapists is just shitty.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please point me to the video that shows Trump claiming all, or most illegals are committing rape.

Dude. You were proven wrong, and instead of admitting it, you are now arguing over semantics.
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