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death-magnet
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Joined: 01 Jul 2022
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:23 pm    Post subject: Hello Gentoo forum Reply with quote

New Gentoo user here. I say new, been tinkering with it a few weeks. Been using gnu/linux off and on since the mid 90s. Yes, I'm old.

I registered here to ask a question but figured out the answer before I could actually post it.

I really like the forum here and the wiki. Both are excellent sources of information. Thanks to the community for making this an excellent resource.

I am not much of a contributor of programming stuff, but I do expect I'll end up as one of the helpers around here. I usually do. I was a teacher before and I'm good at explaining stuff. For now though I'm in learning mode.

For the past I'm not really sure how long actually I've been using debian based distros. A bit of hopping around here and there, with my /home on a separate partition it's rather simple to do.

What pushed me over the edge to Gentoo was an experience installing some...package. I don't remember what it was but it wanted to pull in 40+ additional packages most of which were related to cups and various printer drivers and other printer things.

I don't own a printer.

Why should a program want printer stuff when I don't have a printer, don't want a printer, and won't ever need to print anything? Just wasted space for crap I'll never use.

Between that, and my computer getting up there in years and mainstream support for its hardware is falling off bit by bit, I figured Gentoo might be the thing I've been looking for.

I want to build a gnu/linux system my way. With the stuff that I need and nothing I don't. Gentoo for the most part has let me do that. Except webkit. For some reason even running -webkit and -gnome, MATE still pulled it in. :roll:

I'm still working on figuring out if I can bypass that with another use flag. I'm not sure -gtk would be a good idea when setting up a gnome based gui. I've not been able to figure out what part of MATE is wanting webkit yet. I'll get around to it eventually.

Nice to meet ya'll.
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to gentoo forum.

You can try to see what package need webkit with emerge -cp net-libs/webkit-gtk command.
If you post the output of that command we might be able to help you figure out whether it's needed or not :).
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death-magnet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
Welcome to gentoo forum.

You can try to see what package need webkit with emerge -cp net-libs/webkit-gtk command.
If you post the output of that command we might be able to help you figure out whether it's needed or not :).


That command returned nothing, but a hint to try --verbose.

Doing that comes up with this.

sudo emerge -cpv net-libs/webkit-gtk

Calculating dependencies... done!
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.36.3 pulled in by:
gnome-extra/yelp-42.1 requires >=net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.19.2:4
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alamahant
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnome-base/gnome
pulls
gnome-base/gnome-core-apps
which then pulls
gnome-extra/yelp
which pulls
the dreaded horrible webkit-gtk.
Solution
Use
Code:

gnome-base/gnome-light


instead of
Code:

gnome-base/gnome


You might try this
Code:

emerge -av gnome-base/gnome-light
emerge --deselect gnome-base/gnome
emerge -a --depclean


being SUPER EXTRA CAUTIOUS to keep the packages you need by
Code:

emerge --noreplace <package1> <package2> <package3>

Before you try anything lets see
Code:

emerge -cpv gnome-extra/yelp

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Last edited by alamahant on Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

death-magnet wrote:
That command returned nothing, but a hint to try --verbose.

Yes sorry I've --verbose on my EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS variable and I forget always to add the option to commands.

For your problem see alamahant's hint because there is no use flag to disable webkit from gnome-base/gnome.
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CooSee
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome to GenToo :)

i use default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib (stable) * profile.

and i have this in make.conf:

Code:
USE="-bluetooth -geoip -geolocation -gksu -gnome-online-accounts -gnome-keyring -gstreamer -kde -modemmanager -ppp -ssh-agent -wext -wifi appindicator alsa alsaplugins bash-completion branding \
dvd dvdr dvdnav egl elogind dbus fish-completion fontconfig gdk-pixbuf gles2 gtk3 jpeg jpeg2k lcms libinput lmsensors mp3 mp4 mpeg ogg opengl otf png pulseaudio \
svg truetype tpm ttf udev uefi usb vaapi vdpau vulkan wayland widevine xcomposite xinerama xml xrandr zsh-completion zlib"


and regarding to mate, if i do emerge -vp --usepkg=n mate-base/mate i get this:

https://pastebin.com/WyCj9bf0

no cups, no webkit.

maybe there's a big difference if using a desktop profile

greetings
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

death-magnet,

Welcome to Gentoo.

Gentoo really isn't a distro. Its a toolkit you use to design and install your own distro.
Gentoo in the portage package manager and the ebuild repo. Everything else is upstream.

There are a lot more knobs to fiddle with than a binary distro but there is no need to get in right first time.
Going from where you are to where you think you want to be next, in changing the settings and letting portage do it.
It really is an iterative process.

Keep in mind that an expert is someone who knows more that you do.
By that definition, you will be someone elses expert already.

Code:
$ emerge -cpv net-libs/webkit-gtk
--- Couldn't find 'net-libs/webkit-gtk' to depclean
and i have MATE too. I'm on
Code:
default/linux/amd64/17.1/no-multilib
mostly because when i set up this install in 2009, that's all there was for no-multilib.

Your profile is just a starting point. You can add or subtract things with USE settings.
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NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
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death-magnet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. And here I thought the desktop profile made desktop environment support better, not more bloated. Back to the drawing board on that then :D
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death-magnet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can say this, and when I discovered it I had one of those jaw drop to the floor moments.

This thing takes longer to get from login screen to desktop than it does from power off to login screen.

8O

Even when I had this old laptop running a raid0 ssd setup for max speed it couldn't do that on debian.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The desktop profile enables defaults that people who want a full-featured Desktop Environment will usually want. Such people generally consider desktop bloat a good thing because of all the features it brings them. If you prefer a more minimal system, choose a non-desktop profile, or choose not to install GNOME or KDE/Plasma.
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death-magnet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like MATE. It is normally a very simple and lightweight environment. Now that I know about this desktop profile business, it will once again become a lightweight environment. A bit of work and I'll have that sorted. Webkit begone!

Thanks yall.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

death-magnet,

Auditioning profiles is cheap in terms of your time and CPU time.
Run
Code:
emerge --info
and make a not of the USE settings. They are from your profile, with changes from make.conf.

Run
Code:
eselect profile list
The one with the Blue asterisk is your current profile.

Choose another profile and
Code:
emerge --info
again. Compare the USE flags.

You can start with a minimalist profile and add things, or take things away from a profile that provides more than you would like.
I prefer the bottom up approach. You will spot something missing, if it matters but spotting extra to to take away is harder.

For the sake of completeness, profiles do more than set USE flags but that's all that matter to you right now.

Looking is harmless.
To make new profile take effect, you need to run
Code:
emerge -NDav @world

I'll let you read
Code:
man emerge
to see what those options do.
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NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
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death-magnet
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Joined: 01 Jul 2022
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a new profile set up and all that but I've got a little unexpected twist. Set up profile then did the world update to get everything square and on the same page.

It uninstalled my 5.18 kernel and replaced it with 5.15.x kernel. My guess is this has something to do with an incompatibility with either my hardware or my raid configuration. Other than that everything seems to be working nicely. I will install x and mate soon but I want to sleep first. Just need to get this kernel build sorted and installed.

Thanks for the responses yall

Edit - I now understand why people say Gentoo is addicting. I have decided to put off sleeping in favor of getting mate done. And woohoo, no webkit this time. Did an emerge -pv first, and to be double sure, I piped it to grep and searched webkit.

It's out!
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death-magnet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
death-magnet,

Auditioning profiles is cheap in terms of your time and CPU time.
Run
Code:
emerge --info
and make a not of the USE settings. They are from your profile, with changes from make.conf.

Run
Code:
eselect profile list
The one with the Blue asterisk is your current profile.

Choose another profile and
Code:
emerge --info
again. Compare the USE flags.

You can start with a minimalist profile and add things, or take things away from a profile that provides more than you would like.
I prefer the bottom up approach. You will spot something missing, if it matters but spotting extra to to take away is harder.

For the sake of completeness, profiles do more than set USE flags but that's all that matter to you right now.

Looking is harmless.
To make new profile take effect, you need to run
Code:
emerge -NDav @world

I'll let you read
Code:
man emerge
to see what those options do.


After seeing what all extra unneeded stuff came in from a desktop profile, I'm right there with you on a minimal and building up. That's what I went with. I figured since I'd have to rebuild a bunch of crap anyway I'd just wipe the drive. And while I was in there, I re enabled my raid0.

I am wanting my performance up to 11.

It did mean I need an initramfs now, but this is not hard to set up.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

death-magnet,

The 5.18 kernel is Gentoo testing 5.15 is Gentoo stable.
You probably have a stable install as you explicitly have to ask for testing.
You can mix and match stable/testing but that way will make you brain hurt.
What will happen is that a testing package wants another testing package to support it.
A the same time another stable package wants the stable version of the same supporting package.
You usually cannot install two versions of the same package concurrently.

Stay with stable while you learn the ropes. Testing is only an emerge away.
However, there is no way back to stable as some things cannot be downgraded.
The best you can do is wait for stable to catch you up.
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NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the stable desktop profile. Emerge mate, no webkit.
Code:
$ emerge -pv mate-base/mate

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-common-1.24.2::gentoo  68 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/tinyxml-2.6.2-r4::gentoo  USE="stl -debug -doc -static-libs" 206 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-3.0-r5:3.0::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/docbook-dsssl-stylesheets-1.79-r4::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/scrollkeeper-dtd-1.0-r1:1.0::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/rarian-0.8.1-r3::gentoo  USE="-static-libs" 482 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-libs/libfakekey-0.3-r1::gentoo  USE="-debug -doc" 10 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-libs/libXpresent-1.0.0-r1::gentoo  USE="-doc" ABI_X86="(64) -32 (-x32)" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-menus-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="introspection -debug" 394 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] gnome-base/libgtop-2.40.0-r1:2/11::gentoo  USE="introspection" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/mate-icon-theme-1.24.0-r1::gentoo  21,659 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/mate-backgrounds-1.24.2::gentoo  45,706 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-util/gtk-doc-1.33.2::gentoo  USE="-emacs -test" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_9 -python3_8 -python3_10" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-libs/libmatemixer-1.24.1-r1::gentoo  USE="alsa oss -pulseaudio" 474 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-desktop-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="X introspection startup-notification -debug" 1,090 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/libmatekbd-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="X introspection -test" 441 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libpeas-1.32.0::gentoo  USE="gtk python -glade -gtk-doc -lua -test -vala" LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="lua5-1 -luajit" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_9 -python3_8 -python3_10 (-python3_11)" 190 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/libmateweather-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="-debug" 2,172 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-misc/mozo-1.24.0-r1::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_9 -python3_8 -python3_10" 223 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-arch/engrampa-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="-caja -magic (-packagekit)" 1,648 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-calc-1.24.2::gentoo  948 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-polkit-1.24.0-r1::gentoo  USE="-accountsservice -appindicator" 325 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-panel-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="X introspection -wayland" 3,195 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-terms/mate-terminal-1.24.1::gentoo  1,986 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-editors/pluma-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="introspection spell -test" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_9 -python3_8 -python3_10" 3,658 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-system-monitor-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="elogind -systemd" 2,373 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-utils-1.24.0-r3::gentoo  USE="X udisks -applet -debug -ipv6 -test" 7,745 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] media-gfx/eom-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="X exif introspection jpeg lcms svg tiff -debug -imagemagick -xmp" 2,373 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-media-1.24.1::gentoo  556 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] app-text/atril-1.24.0-r2::gentoo  USE="dbus introspection postscript tiff -caja -debug -djvu -dvi -epub -gnome-keyring -synctex -t1lib -test -xps" 2,015 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-netbook-1.24.0-r1::gentoo  348 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/caja-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="introspection mate (-packagekit) -test -xmp" 5,184 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-settings-daemon-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="X libnotify policykit sound -debug -pulseaudio -rfkill -smartcard" 1,029 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-power-manager-1.24.3::gentoo  USE="applet elogind policykit -libsecret -systemd -test" 6,055 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] gnome-extra/zenity-3.42.1::gentoo  USE="libnotify -webkit" 3,020 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-wm/marco-1.24.2:0/2::gentoo  USE="startup-notification -test -xinerama" 1,803 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/caja-extensions-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="cdr mail open-terminal wallpaper xattr -gajim -image-converter -pidgin -share -upnp" 540 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-applets-1.24.1::gentoo  USE="X cpupower policykit upower -ipv6" 8,030 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-applets-meta-1.24.0::gentoo  USE="-appindicator -sensors" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-control-center-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="-accountsservice -appindicator -debug" 3,355 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/gtk-engines-murrine-0.98.2-r3::gentoo  USE="themes -animation-rtl" ABI_X86="(64) -32 (-x32)" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/murrine-themes-0.98.11::gentoo  148 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/mate-themes-3.22.21:0/3.22::gentoo  5,252 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-themes/mate-themes-meta-3-r3::gentoo  USE="-gtk2-only" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-misc/xdg-user-dirs-0.17::gentoo  USE="gtk" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-misc/xdg-user-dirs-gtk-0.10-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-session-manager-1.24.3-r1::gentoo  USE="elogind xtrans -debug -gles2 -gnome-keyring -ipv6 -systemd" 697 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-extra/mate-screensaver-1.24.2::gentoo  USE="X elogind libnotify opengl pam -debug -systemd" 4,980 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] mate-base/mate-1.24::gentoo  USE="base extras notification themes -bluetooth -help" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-misc/mate-notification-daemon-1.24.2::gentoo  387 KiB
[uninstall     ] x11-misc/notification-daemon-3.20.0-r1::gentoo
[blocks b      ] x11-misc/notification-daemon ("x11-misc/notification-daemon" is soft blocking x11-misc/mate-notification-daemon-1.24.2)

Total: 50 packages (50 new, 1 uninstall), Size of downloads: 140,745 KiB
Conflict: 1 block (all satisfied)

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hp pavilion hpe h8-1260t/2AB5; spinning rust x3
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amd64/17.1/desktop (stable), OpenRC, -systemd -pulseaudio -uefi
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