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Morality124
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 am    Post subject: The Linux development code of conduct being "revamped&q Reply with quote

http://archive.fo/1iGmk

Linus goes on an apology tour for hurting feelings with past behaviour: https://archive.fo/lMcUA

EDIT: He is also "take some time off for empathy training" as a reply in LKML put it, so we will have Linus-less development for some unspecified time. :lol:

EDIT 2: I'm guessing that empathy training will include the importance of not indulging in unsolicited virtual hugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I propose adopting the Seinfeld rule for all of STEM : No hugging, no crying.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
I propose adopting the Seinfeld rule for all of STEM : No hugging, no crying.


If only we were so lucky... https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8a104f8b5867c682d994ffa7a74093c54469c11f

Now the Linux kernel gets to enjoy the "Contributor Covenant" (https://www.contributor-covenant.org/):

Quote:
Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often result in greater inequality.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ffs. just make it work. "Feelings" should have nothing to do with technology.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
ffs. just make it work. "Feelings" should have nothing to do with technology.
:) don't be silly, then what job would the snowflakes have.
Option 1) a system performing as optimally and concisely as defined
Option 2) a system that "works" and other people are happy about themselves

This entire invasion of SJW into the clearly defined world of work-donWork is starting to not be funny anymore
it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=BKorP55Aqvg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Muso wrote:
ffs. just make it work. "Feelings" should have nothing to do with technology.
:) don't be silly, then what job would the snowflakes have.
Option 1) a system performing as optimally and concisely as defined
Option 2) a system that "works" and other people are happy about themselves

This entire invasion of SJW into the clearly defined world of work-donWork is starting to not be funny anymore
it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=BKorP55Aqvg


I've seen this coming, and have been warning about it, for years. It saddens me that 1984 was taken as a blueprint rather than a warning.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Naib wrote:
Muso wrote:
ffs. just make it work. "Feelings" should have nothing to do with technology.
:) don't be silly, then what job would the snowflakes have.
Option 1) a system performing as optimally and concisely as defined
Option 2) a system that "works" and other people are happy about themselves

This entire invasion of SJW into the clearly defined world of work-donWork is starting to not be funny anymore
it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=BKorP55Aqvg


I've seen this coming, and have been warning about it, for years. It saddens me that 1984 was taken as a blueprint rather than a warning.
its not even 1984, this is Fahrenheit 451 ... self-censorship. I always feared 451 over 1984 because with 1984 they was always the possibility of the people fighting back before we got to that point (tearing down deep state) but what can you do if society turns against itself? wanting bite-sized information and removing content it deems offensive?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected. Spot on, Naib.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are overreacting.

For example, if something doesn't work, say it so. You don't need to add birch at the end of your statement, do you?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
You guys are overreacting.

For example, if something doesn't work, say it so. You don't need to add birch at the end of your statement, do you?


Your using the word "birch" triggers me because when I was a young potato I was nearly crushed by a falling birch tree during a windy thunderstorm. I demand an apology for your problematic and unaccommodating behaviour, otherwise I'll have to report how oppressive you are being.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is that dumbass CoC:

Quote:
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.


so if you have no education and no experience, the group must still allow treat your "contributions" the same as those who actually know what they're doing. these people are a cult.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
this is that dumbass CoC:

Quote:
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.


so if you have no education and no experience, the group must still allow treat your "contributions" the same as those who actually know what they're doing. these people are a cult.

Where does it say that they must treat contributions from those who don't know what they are doing the same as contributions from experts? All I see in what you quoted is a pledge not to harass you if you don't know what you are doing.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
big dave wrote:
this is that dumbass CoC:

Quote:
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.


so if you have no education and no experience, the group must still allow treat your "contributions" the same as those who actually know what they're doing. these people are a cult.

Where does it say that they must treat contributions from those who don't know what they are doing the same as contributions from experts? All I see in what you quoted is a pledge not to harass you if you don't know what you are doing.
regardless

now it doesn't say that the contributions should be treated equally (thank god) just that a newbie committing should be treated with respect. Here is the thing... Linus is actually very good at this, it is those that do not listen and those he knows should know better that he gives 2 barrels to. At what point do draw the line when someone is being dense and not listening.

Take when Systemd screwed up userland and messed with kernelspace. Their default reaction was to blame the kernel. Should that just be taken when they themselves with disrespectful?

Assume the best but prepare for the worst... Now a reasonable reaction to amoeba's have been removed and their continued behaviour must be tolerated. Does that seem reasonable?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
now it doesn't say that the contributions should be treated equally (thank god) just that a newbie committing should be treated with respect. Here is the thing... Linus is actually very good at this, it is those that do not listen and those he knows should know better that he gives 2 barrels to. At what point do draw the line when someone is being dense and not listening.

Take when Systemd screwed up userland and messed with kernelspace. Their default reaction was to blame the kernel. Should that just be taken when they themselves with disrespectful?

Assume the best but prepare for the worst... Now a reasonable reaction to amoeba's have been removed and their continued behaviour must be tolerated. Does that seem reasonable?

I don't really follow your argument. The only thing that appears to change is that nobody is supposed to use harassing language. Linus is not required to accept any patches. If the systemd fiasco happens again, Linus can explain who is at fault and why, but he can't personally insult the developers.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morality124 wrote:
notageek wrote:
You guys are overreacting.

For example, if something doesn't work, say it so. You don't need to add birch at the end of your statement, do you?


Your using the word "birch" triggers me because when I was a young potato I was nearly crushed by a falling birch tree during a windy thunderstorm. I demand an apology for your problematic and unaccommodating behaviour, otherwise I'll have to report how oppressive you are being.
I apologize profusely.

If it is any consolation, I didn't mean to say "birch".
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worrisome. Leftists always say one thing and do another, often what they accuse others of doing.

I wonder if there was some black lettering behind this shit. Nobody just accepts this anger management thing over pointless discussions on the internet—I mean, up to this point in Political Correctness history. I have heard SJWs were trying to falsely accuse Linus of harassment or some other thing to gain some leverage. Is it true?

This will open the way to some privacy-compromising commits to the kernel source code. After all, they just care as much about privacy and data security as they care about feelings—what they really care about is attaining power to push their agenda further down our throats.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
this is that dumbass CoC:

Quote:
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.


so if you have no education and no experience, the group must still allow treat your "contributions" the same as those who actually know what they're doing. these people are a cult.


It also doesn't mention species.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a serious note, crap like this keeps happening and reasonable thinking individuals keep falling back - BSD is reasonably PC-limp free I assume ?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeBSD has that same Code of Conduct thing for more than a year now, and I doubt their dev base is radically different from that of other BSDs. They also follow the cathedral model and the main devs are often located in the Silicancer Valley.

The more reasonable way would be forking Linux and electing someone reasonable to be the principal maintainer of the fork.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asch wrote:
The more reasonable way would be forking Linux and electing someone reasonable to be the principal maintainer of the fork.


Too bad Terry Davis died.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thing is pure nonsense.

Do those Twitter political figures even know what they are doing? Race is a human construct. Such concept exists entirely because of human continue using it. By 'correcting' the effect of racism, they are applying the concept of race. For example, some people didn't like black dogs and abused them. Now we know black dogs and brown dogs are pretty much the same. To stop black dogs abuse, shouldn't we aim for the abandonment of the view that they are different? Instead, people are further encouraging and microscoping the conceptual gap between dogs. This is simply crazy. "NO, <group x> is mistreated! We have to fight for their rights!" Haha

On another point, language. Words are meaningless without interpretation. The choice of interpretation lies of the reader. That's why people FEEL offended for some words. They chose to feel offended. However, some people consider some words are objectively offensive, where such definition may not even be on any dictionary yet. Aren't they the people who chose to interpret those words in an offensive way to fit their agender? For example, if I have a son and he is fat. I call him fatty in a familiar way. He doesn't feel offended. But according to those people, I am offending him. Does it really make sense?

A similar point can be made with people feeling offended. Even if you are offended, people aren't causing physical damage to you. It is you that chose to consider it important. Stop over doing that and there isn't really much damage received. In a day to day environment, such claim may be regarded as not acceptable. However, if we put in the context of programming, it will start making sense. To explain this point, consider the army. It is not a secret that soldiers talks dirtily and perhaps 'offensively', even over the radio. "Where is my fxxxing backup?" Why is that acceptable? The reason is that language is created to transmit information. In many context, the point is the information being transmitted, not the syntax of the language. Do you have time to correct names on the battlefield? Is it important? Now, git comments and project mail lists are a battlefield of code. The function of git and mail lists are for the exchange needed to facilitate efficient collaborated programming. It is code that matters, nothing else. Under this context, why does anyone have the leisure to get offended? Why would anyone have the time to check grammar and syntax? This is not a social platform, this is the war between coders and bugs! If you wish to engage in those kind of conversations, there are many other platforms to do so.

Setting up COCs for programming projects only enables more non-programming related conflicts, banning good, working contributors and lost of control over the project.

You may say that without COC, anyone can disrupt development. That is not true. In the days without COCs, trolls are simply dismissed or banned. Part of the reasons for harsh language is to defend the project against them.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asch wrote:
FreeBSD has that same Code of Conduct thing for more than a year now, and I doubt their dev base is radically different from that of other BSDs.


OpenBSD is radically different from the other BSD's dev bases. Google Theo De Raadt. It seems to be one of the last bastions of the meritocracy principle at least on the OS level.

And I've seen positive things coming from Matt Dillon (DragonFly BSD).
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope Linus tells the cry-bullies to get fucked. There's enough SocJus cancer in the FOSS community, the last place you need it is in kernel development.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linus is taking a break.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Linus is taking a break.

He can tell them to get fucked after the break.
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