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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a sony experia mini st15i, it has android 4.0.x, not sure what I can do with it as it is an rather old phone.

as I got it from a friend, I'm not sure I want to replace the existing os on it. I don't want to brick it...
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erm67
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be usable if there was a up-to-date OS for it.
Unfortunaltely cellphones aren't like PCs. :(
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On eBay there are new and/or refurbished Google phones:
  • Pixel XL under $180. This one is still receiving security updates.
  • Nexus 5 under $90. This one can run SailfishOS and Ubuntu Touch.
Both of these are good phones. In fact, I may get a spare Nexus 5 just to play with Ubuntu Touch.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a shame.

Sometimes you can get an old Smartphone, good in shape for a small price. However i would never bought one from Ebay, or install a fresh OS and a fresh Bootloader, like TWARP, before using it.

Usually there is no big danger. If you phone connect to a PC and you know how to unbrick it (just in case). The Hard issue is to have an exploit for rooting it (if you have to). However with time there are more and more Ways to root that phone. Some Security Researches found some AT-Commands to update the Firmware (WTF?) or Unlock the Screen through USB-Connection and Using the Phone as Modem.

You could buy a fresh patched libreos Phone on Ebay too, but i think i would just made a fresh install there too.

DaggyStyle, OS 4.0.x should NOT be used. Just for calling a Pizza. No, i would Dump that phone, as soon as possible. In that case a new Commercial Spyphone (Basic OS) is to favour before a Android 4.0.x.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Nexus 5 under $90. This one can run SailfishOS and Ubuntu Touch.
No one has been updating the SailfishOS port for a long time. And it uses some old Cyanogenmod as its base, so getting it might turn out to be difficult.
The Ubuntu touch would maybe fit better.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....

why? what can be so memory and cpu demanding I might need?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd be more worried about is the lack of security updates.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't intend to access the internet with it.
moreover, my current phone doesn't have any os security updates (the phone is pre android Samsung).
in fact, taking os security in mind, every pre android 7.0 phone has no security updates and needs to be replaced. I don't see everyone rush to replaces their phones.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....

why? what can be so memory and cpu demanding I might need?


A more recent Android version, did you ever heard about stagefright?
That phone can be turned into a zombie just by watching a malicious video ...
Keep the network disconnected and use it as a feature phone.

Hopefully project treble will solve the problem of critical updates like that for all new Android devices
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....

why? what can be so memory and cpu demanding I might need?


A more recent Android version, did you ever heard about stagefright?
That phone can be turned into a zombie just by watching a malicious video ...
Keep the network disconnected and use it as a feature phone.

Hopefully project treble will solve the problem of critical updates like that for all new Android devices

I don't like smartphones, my current phone is dumber that the first smartphone but more safe and resilient but his end has came.
as stated above, I need a phone for calls, sms, occasional mms, maybe waze. thats it, I intent to have mobile data, wireless, gps and bt off at all time unless I must use it for a small period of time.
I don't intend to surf the net with it. for that I have pcs where I'm usually at. if I'm not at a place that has a pc in it, it isn't needed at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....

why? what can be so memory and cpu demanding I might need?


A more recent Android version, did you ever heard about stagefright?
That phone can be turned into a zombie just by watching a malicious video ...
Keep the network disconnected and use it as a feature phone.

Hopefully project treble will solve the problem of critical updates like that for all new Android devices

I don't like smartphones, my current phone is dumber that the first smartphone but more safe and resilient but his end has came.
as stated above, I need a phone for calls, sms, occasional mms, maybe waze. thats it, I intent to have mobile data, wireless, gps and bt off at all time unless I must use it for a small period of time.
I don't intend to surf the net with it. for that I have pcs where I'm usually at. if I'm not at a place that has a pc in it, it isn't needed at all.



1) Maybe there is already some malware installed, -i'd format and reinstall all partitions, not only reset to factory settings.
2) Sometimes the malware comes with ads embedded in free apps, most of the times its a media file that can be infected
3) it is a fact that people using old unpatched android find themselves often subscribed to expensive and useless "ringtone subscriptions"
4) if you call your provider to complain they will tell you to buy a new phone :-)

Conclusion beside network services you shouldn't use anything that displays ads, very hard on Android....
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
you shouldn't use anything that displays ads, very hard on Android....
... LineageOS then?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
512MB ram - 1ghz single core CPU ????

throw it in the dust bin, if it is small enough you could use to keep a window open in summer ....

why? what can be so memory and cpu demanding I might need?


A more recent Android version, did you ever heard about stagefright?
That phone can be turned into a zombie just by watching a malicious video ...
Keep the network disconnected and use it as a feature phone.

Hopefully project treble will solve the problem of critical updates like that for all new Android devices

I don't like smartphones, my current phone is dumber that the first smartphone but more safe and resilient but his end has came.
as stated above, I need a phone for calls, sms, occasional mms, maybe waze. thats it, I intent to have mobile data, wireless, gps and bt off at all time unless I must use it for a small period of time.
I don't intend to surf the net with it. for that I have pcs where I'm usually at. if I'm not at a place that has a pc in it, it isn't needed at all.



1) Maybe there is already some malware installed, -i'd format and reinstall all partitions, not only reset to factory settings.

as said, this isn't my phone, it is a loan from a friend, I'm not sure bricking it will be accepted.
in addition, I'm not sure reformat is supported out of the box (I might be wrong).
erm67 wrote:
2) Sometimes the malware comes with ads embedded in free apps, most of the times its a media file that can be infected

indeed, I'm scanning the phone, for now I saw the xperia apps and something called fun&download, I don't think the former is malware, the latter I'm working on disabling.
erm67 wrote:
3) it is a fact that people using old unpatched android find themselves often subscribed to expensive and useless "ringtone subscriptions"

not here. I have my own ringtone and I don't need no new one.
erm67 wrote:
4) if you call your provider to complain they will tell you to buy a new phone :-)

Conclusion beside network services you shouldn't use anything that displays ads, very hard on Android....

I'm already getting this answers now so no change.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
erm67 wrote:
you shouldn't use anything that displays ads, very hard on Android....
... LineageOS then?

unfortunately, this phone is not listed in the support list of LineageOS.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2524872

The bootloader might be locked, you will have to unlock it to have some fun, the fun will be probably limited to using some old roms.
So unlock the bootloader, boot to fastboot, connecto to pc, boot a legacy TWRP like 2.4.3, use it to flash itself and a rom.

Probably the bootloader cannot be locked again so it's irreversible. You can also backup the original firmware using twrp.

Don't worry it is not so easy to brick an Android phone, basically as long as the bootloader works you can recover the phone in fastboot, and it is usually well protected.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2524872

The bootloader might be locked, you will have to unlock it to have some fun, the fun will be probably limited to using some old roms.
So unlock the bootloader, boot to fastboot, connecto to pc, boot a legacy TWRP like 2.4.3, use it to flash itself and a rom.

Probably the bootloader cannot be locked again so it's irreversible. You can also backup the original firmware using twrp.

Don't worry it is not so easy to brick an Android phone, basically as long as the bootloader works you can recover the phone in fastboot, and it is usually well protected.

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to smart phones. all of this requires windows installation correct? not sure I have one I can use.
I've looked into the url above, frankly I'm not sure what to make of it. are all the versions compatible with the machine I have?
assuming I want to upgrade to marshmallow (6.x.x), what will it give me? can the phone be usable even in it's most basic functions? that will still give me a android full with goolge junk in it and I assume it is harder to remove it in that version.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
erm67 wrote:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2524872

The bootloader might be locked, you will have to unlock it to have some fun, the fun will be probably limited to using some old roms.
So unlock the bootloader, boot to fastboot, connecto to pc, boot a legacy TWRP like 2.4.3, use it to flash itself and a rom.

Probably the bootloader cannot be locked again so it's irreversible. You can also backup the original firmware using twrp.

Don't worry it is not so easy to brick an Android phone, basically as long as the bootloader works you can recover the phone in fastboot, and it is usually well protected.

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to smart phones. all of this requires windows installation correct? not sure I have one I can use.
I've looked into the url above, frankly I'm not sure what to make of it. are all the versions compatible with the machine I have?
assuming I want to upgrade to marshmallow (6.x.x), what will it give me? can the phone be usable even in it's most basic functions? that will still give me a android full with goolge junk in it and I assume it is harder to remove it in that version.


Android 5 was almost unusable with 1G Ram, it won't even boot with 512M ..... go figure 6.0 .... there were also kernel requirements and the kernel of that phone is quite old so no you won't be able to update to a different android version, the various roms posted on XDA are usually realized using the official kernel ripped from an official rom and customized version of an OS like AOSP, cyanogen mod (now called lineage OS) is the most famous but there are a lot more mods around.
Ask in this forum:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-mini/development
You will first have to determine wether the bootloader is locked or not.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its realitivly easy to do these days, there are alot of alternatives now where as 8 years ago, not so much.

get a cheap phone but make sure it has some sort of development going on at xda, root it, flash your twrp custom recovery, flash AOKP or lineage, and dont flash gapps.

thats about as minimum google you can get. Use f-droid.org for apks, and even non-free apk's on apkmirrors and file hosts.

sometimes, an app that you know utilizes google services, will have a pop up stating this app will not work without google services, simply click outside of the box anywhere and 9/10 itll still work.

for other things, some large games and what not, you'll have to download the apk, and then it's data file and manually extract it to /android/obb

i've been google free for about 2 years, on the LG stylo 2 plus. the only thing better would be using plasma-mobile, or the abandonned ubuntu-phone os and i would be using them except its near impossible or impossible to port to any thing outside of what they are currently made for due to manufacturer bs modem software

and no, you dont necessiarly need windows to do these things anymore, some tools like odin will require it if you have a samsung, but heimdall is the alternative to that.

if your lucky, on linux all you have to do is 'fastboot oem unlock' 'fastboot flash recovery'

boot the recovery, flash your rom.zip.

one thing to note. DO NOT flash a 32bit recovery, over a 64bit recovery.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billions of people in Asia don't use any google service and live happy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm not quiet sure what you are trying to achieve.
but here's what i have done myself (considering i'm having what i would consider a similar problem as you)

i brought a cheap one (samsung g318h, paid it 89€, ~80$, must be even cheaper today)
i create a dumb email address, create a dumb google account with that email (for google i'm john doe, i didn't provide any security feature they ask (phone number they ask, and no credit card), then disable everything in the settings of the google account (privacy settings, thanks to europeean laws!!!)
i didn't create any samsung account (it could be avoid and it seems to suck even more than google)

then on the phone i have disable "position" (your location by phone), mobile datas and bluetooth
and enable "check apps validity" still
in the phone settings -> app handler-> i have try to force stop every apps, then check disable (some are uninstall, some refuse to stop, many emits complains that i have just ignore ; and funny, some complains, uninstall themselves, just to see they get install back few seconds later (google won't allow you to remove them).

each time i try install some apps from google store, i get complains for this or that (no phone number for security is present, no credit card associate with the account) ; i just keep ignoring them.

now each time i try to run an apps, some apps complains they cannot work and i need to enable this or that, i just ignore the complains, if the app can manage to work, great, if not -> uninstall ; i have try many apps to see, and frankly it's just full of crap, nothing is worth, they keep sending publicity but just sucks.
I endup with these install, my bank manager, my box tool (to control my adsl router), androidtv (a remote for my tv), and wifi file transfer (allow me to transfert file from or to the phone via wifi), and an ssh app. I have tried many, and really, it's impossible to get an app that do something useful, they are just all crap or useless (scanning my wifi network to see devices connect to it is funny 2s, and goes to trash as soon it pop up publicity about some game to raise pigs, and it happen at the 3rd seconds)

each time someone send me a message with picture, i must enable mobile datas to get it (but it's 99% time crap, so i just ignore them, even my educated friends love to sent me useless picture of cats), once i get it, i always disable it again (with it disable, apps gets update only thru wifi, which is free of cost for me ; and with it disable the message is a hitbox waiting for mobile datas to be enable and you to click the button to download it). While "normal" message are get without trouble.

so despite having "some" trouble and of course i'm not silly to think google is not stalking me (location could be get from where you are connect to), and it sucks to refind a video i have watch because i have no history to pick it up back ; or some google services that just refuse to work (you cannot get google maps to work with these settings), but i'm happy as it is.
Because for me it's a phone, and i could get call or gives some.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.androiddocs.com/google/play-services/id.html

The guys at google are smart and don't use your email address to track and record what you do with the phone, they use an anonymous ID that makes the practice legal, you can put your real address on the phone if you want they don't need it and don't use it to track you since it would be illegal anyway
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sao98021 wrote:
and even non-free apk's on apkmirrors and file hosts.

This is a nogo for me. Sure most f-droid apps are open source. But i just trust papular apps, or i known some developers.
Better to use the google store apps through the proxy yalp, for official apps.

Less apps are better then more. And for sure i do not trust every app on googles app store.

But freely available apk's on the web? NO in most cases. Often they are rebranded apps with spyware or trojans or viruses.

I hope for a future with a fully Linux or Gentoo Mobile System, and free transparent Apps!

@krinn
Yes, is hat to say it but android on tv's are as awful as unpatched internet of shit Linux devices with a too old kernel, and no ability to patch it, cause of drivers and so on..
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisJumper wrote:
sao98021 wrote:
and even non-free apk's on apkmirrors and file hosts.

This is a nogo for me. Sure most f-droid apps are open source. But i just trust papular apps, or i known some developers.
Better to use the google store apps through the proxy yalp, for official apps.

Less apps are better then more. And for sure i do not trust every app on googles app store.

But freely available apk's on the web? NO in most cases. Often they are rebranded apps with spyware or trojans or viruses.

I hope for a future with a fully Linux or Gentoo Mobile System, and free transparent Apps!

@krinn
Yes, is hat to say it but android on tv's are as awful as unpatched internet of shit Linux devices with a too old kernel, and no ability to patch it, cause of drivers and so on..


i didnt mean just go get apks from anywhere, random places on the internet that obviously look horrible. really the only 2 others recommend is apkmirror and apkpure(there are more, but these are the only two i have experience with and personally dont find sketchy). pure has it's own store too for people that like having an app store, there aren't any pirated applications on them as both are pretty big now and like f-droid both have a process and all apk's are checked before hosted. sorry, i think the term 'non-free' threw you off, i didnt mean non-free as in, you have to buy to use. For me, i dont really trust an application just because its popular, there have been many apologies from google and app developers for putting apps up with security issues, the one big most recent one that comes to mind is fortnite mobile,

https://thehackernews.com/2018/08/fortnite-android-app-apk.html (opened the possibility for a 3rd party to install malware to your phone by piggybacking off of the google services downloading data)

note: once these things are found they are usually addressed, but in fortnites case they wanted google to hold back from announcing the find letting the vulnerability last about a week longer. there are a ton of other examples and i'm positive alot more that aren't made public. i Stopped flashing google stuff on my phone for a lot of reasons, resources, trust and security, battery, which now in 2018 you can have nearly 100% functionality without google, the only inconvenient thing(i'm sure as time goes on, and for googles job security they will make things more dependent on having google services infesting your hpone) is having to extract data manually and doing the job of google services on your own, so for me these days i'd much rather sacrifice that small convenience.

as a side note, there is a little project called Microg https://microg.org/ which is a opensource re-implementation of Google’s proprietary Android user space apps and libraries while retaining the parent apps basic functionality, like google services, etc

Code:
The linux-based open-source mobile operating system Android is not only the most popular mobile operating system in the world, it’s also on the way to becoming a proprietary operating system. How is that?

While the core operating system is still released as part of the Android Open Source Project, the majority of core apps are not. It gets worse: More and more libraries and APIs are only available on phones that run various Google apps pre-installed, effectively locking third-party apps to the Google ecosystem. For these reasons Android is described as being a “look but don’t touch” kind of open.

At this point, several popular open-source applications already require some of Google’s proprietary libraries to be installed. Increasing demand in the free software community in addition to severe problems in Google’s proprietary software discovered by the Android modding community, have led to the development of a free software clone of Google’s proprietary core libraries and applications - the microG Project was born.

Although most microG components are far from complete, users are amazed by the results. Free software users got extended application support, privacy-caring users can reduce or monitor data that is sent to Google and especially older phones can expect some battery life improvements. microG is not only used on real devices, but also replaces Google tools in test emulators and is even used in virtual mobile infrastructure.

Components
Service Core (GmsCore) is a library app, providing the functionality required to run apps that use Google Play Services or Google Maps Android API (v2).

More details and installation instructions

Services Framework Proxy (GsfProxy) is a small helper utility to allow apps developed for Google Cloud to Device Messaging (C2DM) to use the compatible Google Cloud Messaging service included with GmsCore.

Read GmsCore documentation for details

Unified Network Location Provider (UnifiedNlp) is a library that provides Wi-Fi- and Cell-tower-based geolocation to applications that use Google’s network location provider. It is included in GmsCore but can also run independently on most Android systems.

More details and installation instructions

Maps API (mapsv1) is a system library, providing the same functionality as now deprecated Google Maps API (v1).

More details and installation instructions

Store (Phonesky) is a frontend application providing access to the Google Play Store to download and update applications. Development is in early stage and there is no usable application yet.


i tried it once while it was brand new, didnt find it all that necessary so i flash it on my phones, and while it greatly improves the privacy aspect of things, one thing in the back of my mind is that while these components ARE transparent... they still phone home to the same old google.

in the future though, when your phones functionality will 100% depend on having google, this microg will be the way to go, unless you just want to give in.

f you want gentoo on your phone, for now the best is that gentoo RAP https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Android (as i'm sure you know). i prefer the prefix


Last edited by sao98021 on Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:42 pm; edited 6 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisJumper wrote:
sao98021 wrote:
and even non-free apk's on apkmirrors and file hosts.

This is a nogo for me. Sure most f-droid apps are open source. But i just trust papular apps, or i known some developers.
Better to use the google store apps through the proxy yalp, for official apps.

Less apps are better then more. And for sure i do not trust every app on googles app store.

But freely available apk's on the web? NO in most cases. Often they are rebranded apps with spyware or trojans or viruses.

I hope for a future with a fully Linux or Gentoo Mobile System, and free transparent Apps!

@krinn
Yes, is hat to say it but android on tv's are as awful as unpatched internet of shit Linux devices with a too old kernel, and no ability to patch it, cause of drivers and so on..

He is not talking about cracked apps or shit like that, the problem is that if you don't have google play services and google play store installed you cannot install ANY app from google. Luckily it's possible to download the apk from google play store and install them without having the google infrastructure installed. An increasing number of apps do work nevertheless. There are a few sites that mirrors google play store (if you trust them, the apks are signed just check the signature) or it is possible to download the apks maybe to your pc or another phone with google play services installed and install them. That is the only way to if your chinese android tv did not came with google play store installed. And a lot of apps are ONLY distributed through the official play store.
Honestly I went google free for a few months only, and than come back to using full gaps, I have 3gig ram so don't care about the load.
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