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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: smartphone without any google connectivity Reply with quote

Greetings,

my old cell seems to be dying... I have it for 6-7 years, it isn't a smartphone.
seems like I need a new one, I don't see much possibilities (I don't buy Nokia and the smartphones for elders seems too basic).
so I'm trying to find a combination where I can get a small cell android based and without any google connectivity. (I don;t have a google account and I don'i intend to get one in the process)
anyone has an idea if I can get to this goal and how?

Thanks.
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Find android phones without gapps in commerce I don't know if exist, but you can buy a phone that is compatible with LineageOS rom and then install microG "Access all the Google services without proprietary closed software" or do not install anything.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
Find android phones without gapps in commerce I don't know if exist, but you can buy a phone that is compatible with LineageOS rom and then install microG "Access all the Google services without proprietary closed software" or do not install anything.

Greetings, where can I find such devices? also do they require a google account?
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
Greetings, where can I find such devices?

List of official devices supported by LinageOS you find here.
It is clear that you will have to install LinageOS at your own risk!

DaggyStyle wrote:
also do they require a google account?

No by default gapps (google apps) are not installed, you can decide if install or not.

EDIT: LinageOS is the most famous rom (born from ashes of cynogenmod) but there exist others.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that many Android apps still require Google Play libraries to work correctly, especially those which use push notifications (which are usually routed through the "Google Cloud").
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in line for one of these: Librem 5 – A Security and Privacy Focused Phone. Not available until (allegedly) early Q2'19.

- John
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
I'm in line for one of these: Librem 5 – A Security and Privacy Focused Phone. Not available until (allegedly) early Q2'19.

- John


600$ for a cellphone? paying my divorce fee will be cheaper (if I buy this phone, my wife will divorce me.)
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ChrisJumper
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham do the right with Librem 5, but it take some years and support in progress to have some apps from android ported to Linux. However, Googles Next Phone OS seems to be Linux instead of java/android too.

I did not test everything by myself. But i use Lineageos and did not Install the Google-Packages, have no Store. However i can run some packages from f-droid.org and even free apps from the google store through a store-Proxy App called "Yalp Store".

Hope this helps.

I don't think you need a Google Cloud, if you set up your Calender, Mails, Images through alternative Cloud Services like (Next-Cloud, Owncloud or www-apps/radicale ...) on your own Server.

But yes, the proprietary Apps that depend on Google Cloud... will not work and should be deleted/not installed anyway.
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unheatedgarage
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running cyanogenmod on an old Samsung Galaxy SII. I realize this is totally unsecure, but since it's no longer supported (Lineage OS doesn't support it either) it's what I have for the moment, and I only use it for trivial things.

When I get ready to buy a new phone, I'll check what's supported by Lineage (link kindly provided by fedeliallalinea) and try to get a used one from online. Clearly my preference would be for one that has an unlocked bootloader to begin with.

F-droid is my go-to place for apps as well. This summer I side-loaded the Google app store on my old phone and it only caused problems (probably because it's so old and the software is so outdated).

In summary. If your use case is similar to mine, you might consider an unlocked used phone that's middle of the road (not too old; not bleeding edge new) and run Lineage (or some other variant).
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
John R. Graham wrote:
I'm in line for one of these: Librem 5 – A Security and Privacy Focused Phone. Not available until (allegedly) early Q2'19.

- John


600$ for a cellphone? paying my divorce fee will be cheaper (if I buy this phone, my wife will divorce me.)

If your budget is lower, how about Ubuntu Touch (now developed independently since Canonical dropped it) running on a second-hand OnePlus One or Nexus 5?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp8LgWT7mYQ
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
600$ for a cellphone? paying my divorce fee will be cheaper (if I buy this phone, my wife will divorce me.)


Your marriage is fucked if spending $600 can end it.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
600$ for a cellphone? paying my divorce fee will be cheaper (if I buy this phone, my wife will divorce me.)


Your marriage is fucked if spending $600 can end it.

first is was a joke.
second, my marriage is great as I thought my wife to ask the hard and logical questions when it comes to spending money. it prevents bad spending. $600 for a phone is a ludicrous expanse which isn't worthwhile no matter what is the reason.
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ChrisJumper
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all relative, $600 for a phone which don't spy on you and you can fully program it or develop Software for that pice could be good enough.

Its all about the state you live. If $600 can you save from jail like opposites in Turkey or Egypt.. Smartphones are the new everyday Devices. They will displace the Computer. And how much have you spend for your Computer?

So much people out there that marriage this kind of Hardware and trust there identity to this systems. I think its like a heart peacemaker. Some kind of Hardware you have to faith, that its worth your Life. I would not be churlish here.

But its right, there are other systems which are cheaper. But they can't be compare with Librem 5.

About Ubuntu Touch, its right now hard to use because of the absent of Android Apps.

That should be the same with Librem 5 in the Beginning, so if you are no developer just use some Lineageos and Android. But at these Days its hard to trust Soft and Hardware.

Because there are some Bugs with AT-Commands at the Modem Function in Combination with USB Connection. And thinking about fake or Cheap Chinese Devices that bring some Malware i don't feel good if i think about cheap usb power supply wires. Which could infect my phone.

Its creepy how tiny Hardware is these days.

@unheatedgarage
Just follow the Market, sometimes Smartphones für $50 to $150 Dollar are available which support Lineageos. For me not the price is decisive, but how much computing power the hardware delivers, per Dollar.

And how much time i need to change the OS. Every time i include a failure Quote too. Because some Devices have different Firmware or Hardware as expected.

Its important to free your phone and support it with some actual Software.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisJumper wrote:
$600 for a phone which don't spy on you (...) Its all about the state you live.


Which state does not track the cell which you are logged in? Because technically this is a requirement for mobile phones to work at all.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin

you are right with this. I just want to point that the information on your device could be critical, not because you are a evil one, but because the actual politic think you are not good for the country. Like here in German if some Nazis have access to the Data on that phone and want to turf out some refugees.

Or if you are a journalist with a story about company X and there bad behavior of environmental protection... or diesel fuel and just they have a big interest to shut your mouth.

Have a Clear Phone and because of that the state as clear or nothing to hide, its advantageous.

My example was not about the state you live in, but just about the political situation that could be dangerous to journalists or others. However, every Data you produce with your phone will be accessible in the future too. So its good to... don't save or store Data not encrypted on devices with less security or some servers on the internet.

Just because you could not foreseen, what kind of data could be important to stay secret. Its like these Mobile apps that store the running and Walking Route of Soldiers on the Internet and discover som secret military bases.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently I bought Sony XZ1 Compact for 300€.
First thing I did before inserting a new sim or connecting it to my WiFi was to disable all the "bad apps". Sony had the guts to pack facebook app there. It cannot be removed, but at least I can disable it. I use facebook via browser. The app spys a lot. First thing it does, when it can, it sends SMS to facebook to fish your phone number.
I can also even disable google app and google play services since most apps I have installed are from f-droid. I have disabled Chrome and use Firefox instead.

So in most cases you can "de-googlify" your phone quite a lot. But I understand that it isn't enough for everyone.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apple phones don't have connections to google services (unless you explicitly install google apps)
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msst
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you are not too strict about "does not spy on you", you might use almost any android and avoid most of the spying by

1. Never signing up for any google account. The Phone is perfectly usable without a google account connected. Some people just don't believe it because they are soo used to googles services.

2. Never use the google apps, but use alternatives. More work, less convenient, but something exists for almost anything that google does integrate. For instance maps.me instead google maps. Different browser, Davdroid and nextcloud instead google cloud calendar etc. It will be much more work to configure and not work as seemless of course.

3. Install an alternative app store such as aptoide or similar, then you need to google account for installing aps and also don't need to manually DL apks.

Of course this is not a fully clean solution, as probably nobody knows exactly what android might do somewhere in background. But by staying away from all google apps and without a linked account, the data leak is drastically reduced.

Due to sheer competition and market size you cannot beat the bang for buck (especially of the direct china imports) of android phones.
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pa4wdh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar question a while ago. If you want a phone that doesn't spy on you then Android and iOS don't fit.

My solution came in the form of SailfishOS, a true linux-based OS for phones based on Linux and Qt. I've monitored network traffic, and there is nothing unexpected there, only traffic from the apps i'm actually using. Most apps are also open source, so i usually check the sources to see if it does anything i don't want.

Unfortunately there are not that many phone that run SailfishOS:
- Jolla's phones (https://jolla.com), you'll probably need to look for one second-hand
- Faiphone (https://fairphone.com), this is what i use. The great thing is that's completely open, there's no need to root the device or unlock the bootloader, you even keep your warranty if you install a different OS. It comes with android by default, but installing SailfishOS is easy.
- Some Sony Xperia phones, they run an officially supported version (called Sailfish X)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

++ for SailfishOS.

I've ran Sailfish on my Nexus 5 (my previous phone) for some years. The gesture based interface makes it really easy to use one handed. The Nexus 5 port of SailfishOS is/was unoffical community port. So it had/has some bugs. But the years I used it, it was kinda awesome.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is OnePlus3 for 195 USD on geekbuying now.
I've read that oneplus has most active devs on xda.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
I'm in line for one of these: Librem 5 – A Security and Privacy Focused Phone.

Security with SystemD, is it paradox or oxymoron?

I like OmniROM, it has no Google apps preinstalled (as most custom Android roms don't).

Xiaomi has some cheap devices for custom rom use.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just moronic. I'm going to run Gentoo w/ OpenRC on it. Also, from their web site:
Quote:
Runs PureOS by default, can run most GNU+Linux distributions
(I assume PureOS is Debian-based.) What that means to me is that I can easily get all the hardware working under Gentoo as all the drivers exist.

- John
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
Find android phones without gapps in commerce I don't know if exist, but you can buy a phone that is compatible with LineageOS rom and then install microG "Access all the Google services without proprietary closed software" or do not install anything.


Regarding MicroG you should be aware that is based on 'signature spoofing', it is a hack that tricks the OS into believing that apps not cryptologically signed by google are indeed authentic, this hack can really put you at risk if used by the bad guys. If you hate google don't install gapps at all. I go with full gapos on my lineage :-)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here you'll find any kind of Informations regarding Android !

Code:
https://www.xda-developers.com/


good luck
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