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asturm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He wasn't active in Gentoo in a very long time, and the last attempt wasn't particularly helpful.
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berferd
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Interesting, but unfortunately terse and not helpful to people who don't already know what is meant by his statement.

This might help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/agna5n/debian_systemd_maintainer_steps_down_over/


I prefer this for context:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/11436#issuecomment-454546312

Poor guy got hit with systemd not-a-bug attitude. I'm guessing it wasn't the first time. Anyways, this bug could cause the host to not configure its network on reboot. I hope your LOM system is working!
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

berferd wrote:
pjp wrote:
Interesting, but unfortunately terse and not helpful to people who don't already know what is meant by his statement.

This might help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/agna5n/debian_systemd_maintainer_steps_down_over/


I prefer this for context:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/11436#issuecomment-454546312

Poor guy got hit with systemd not-a-bug attitude. I'm guessing it wasn't the first time. Anyways, this bug could cause the host to not configure its network on reboot. I hope your LOM system is working!
just pathetic ...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's so pathetic that they fixed it.

excerpts wrote:
@poettering's proposal is implemented in #11443.

An implementation of the proposal #11436 (comment).

Closes #11436.

OK, that is enough for me to consider the previous behaviour documented. So I agree that we should preserve compatibility for this.

poettering commented Jan 17, 2019

BTW, for those coming late, a good fix (including a revert) has been merged now. I think all should be good now.
Notice that the final comment by poettering was on the 17th, two days after the "taking a break" announcement.

I don't care for systemd, but this instance doesn't help the dyed-in-the-wool critics.
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berferd
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poettering in a panic tries to undo the damage his minions have done after the long-suffering maintainer for a major distro quits. Looks pretty pathetic to me.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Yeah, it's so pathetic that they fixed it.

excerpts wrote:
@poettering's proposal is implemented in #11443.

An implementation of the proposal #11436 (comment).

Closes #11436.

OK, that is enough for me to consider the previous behaviour documented. So I agree that we should preserve compatibility for this.

poettering commented Jan 17, 2019

BTW, for those coming late, a good fix (including a revert) has been merged now. I think all should be good now.
Notice that the final comment by poettering was on the 17th, two days after the "taking a break" announcement.

I don't care for systemd, but this instance doesn't help the dyed-in-the-wool critics.
not my point. the handling it upto it was accepted was poor and unfortunately common behaviour from systemd dev's
for instance: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/28/black_hat_pwnie_awards/
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't claim it was free of security bugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care about what systemd does, I care so little I don't even follow it's problems.

The only thing I care about is the stupidity of trying to make openrc behave and look like systemd.

It seems according to the wisdom of a certain lead developer if a systemd dev jumped off a cliff, an openrc dev should do the same.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the Gentoo devs, in their infinite "wisdom", followed freedesktop down this path by making it the default...

I seem to remember talking about how the "predictable and persistent" interface naming changes didn't guarantee predictability nor persistence, which would result in exactly this scenario (remote servers being inaccessible)... and how it was asinine to switch to such a system, while renaming based on MAC was a better, more consistent method for most people.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saellaven wrote:
and how it was asinine to switch to such a system, while renaming based on MAC was a better, more consistent method for most people.
Exactly! And already available in udev. No need to screw with the kernel.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saellaven wrote:
After the Gentoo devs, in their infinite "wisdom", followed freedesktop down this path by making it the default...

I seem to remember talking about how the "predictable and persistent" interface naming changes didn't guarantee predictability nor persistence, which would result in exactly this scenario (remote servers being inaccessible)... and how it was asinine to switch to such a system, while renaming based on MAC was a better, more consistent method for most people.

For most people it was as simple as USB bus enumeration races causing their wifi adapter to change name randomly at each boot. Happens with PCI too, because a lot of laptops have theirs wired up to hotplug.

The systemd people really have no fscking understanding of the Linux kernel, or hardware.
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depontius
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
saellaven wrote:
After the Gentoo devs, in their infinite "wisdom", followed freedesktop down this path by making it the default...

I seem to remember talking about how the "predictable and persistent" interface naming changes didn't guarantee predictability nor persistence, which would result in exactly this scenario (remote servers being inaccessible)... and how it was asinine to switch to such a system, while renaming based on MAC was a better, more consistent method for most people.

For most people it was as simple as USB bus enumeration races causing their wifi adapter to change name randomly at each boot. Happens with PCI too, because a lot of laptops have theirs wired up to hotplug.

The systemd people really have no fscking understanding of the Linux kernel, or hardware.


I've followed occasional threads where L.P. essentially says, "I looked at it for a while and didn't understand it, so..." and then goes on to re implement it his way, ignoring decades of hard-learned problems, thereby repeating them and adding some new ones.

As for "predictable, repeatable network names," and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, the ONLY thing about network devices that is predictable and repeatable is the MAC, period. (Though to be fair, I'm in the semiconductor industry, and a few weeks back someone was telling me that the Chinese companies don't really understand this and are shipping bunches of product, all with the same MAC.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conceptually, the predictable, repeatable network name makes sense but for some reason it isn't....
Quote:

Names incorporating Firmware/BIOS provided index numbers for on-board devices (example: eno1)
Names incorporating Firmware/BIOS provided PCI Express hotplug slot index numbers (example: ens1)
Names incorporating physical/geographical location of the connector of the hardware (example: enp2s0)
Names incorporating the interfaces's MAC address (example: enx78e7d1ea46da)
Classic, unpredictable kernel-native ethX naming (example: eth0)


when I did my new build I started using this because "meh", it's not majorly intrusive, once setup its transparent. YET it has changed on my build

Quote:
cat /etc/conf.d/net
# Set the dns_domain_lo variable to the selected domain name
config_enp30s0="dhcp"
config_eno1="dhcp"


the 1st entry is the one that I set during fresh install. Then some time later it became eno1 ... so much for consistency...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib,

The implementation of predictable network naming we have swaps one set of corner cases for another, unless you have a USB doofer, then its far worse.
With USB you get a different interface name depending on the USB port its connected to.

I like the old set of corner cases that I know, so I just turned off predictable network naming, or ripped out ?dev so that there was nothing to do the renaming anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a udev rule (persistent) to name my net interfaces using the mac addy along with turning off predictable network naming
Never had a problem over the years.
Of course if I have to add/replace the network cards then I'll have to change the mac addy.
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depontius
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
I made a udev rule (persistent) to name my net interfaces using the mac addy along with turning off predictable network naming
Never had a problem over the years.
Of course if I have to add/replace the network cards then I'll have to change the mac addy.


But presuming there is a proper MAC sticker somewhere on or inside the box or on the network card, with your udev urles it will be PREDICTABLE and PERSISTENT, unlike the predictable and persistent steaming pile we were handed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Naib,

The implementation of predictable network naming we have swaps one set of corner cases for another, unless you have a USB doofer, then its far worse.
With USB you get a different interface name depending on the USB port its connected to.

I like the old set of corner cases that I know, so I just turned off predictable network naming, or ripped out ?dev so that there was nothing to do the renaming anyway.
I never said what was implemented was good, they balls it up
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sad thing is, if they'd made network devices have device nodes like every other piece of hardware, none of this would have ever happened. Nobody complains about udev's predictable names for any other subsystem because symlinks don't have all these failure modes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
The sad thing is, if they'd made network devices have device nodes like every other piece of hardware, none of this would have ever happened. Nobody complains about udev's predictable names for any other subsystem because symlinks don't have all these failure modes.

I've had the naming order of SATA drives changed too. Swapped plugs until they were right again.

For a while I experimented with an intel ethernet card and the built-in realtek. I loaded the realtek driver at boot with the other modules but not the intel module.
Later in /etc/local.d that runs last, I loaded the intel driver so it always came up as eth1

Not practical if you have a big server full of cards. Then udev does come in handy. Likewise when I re-purposed a 32 bit Gentoo machine into a router, renaming from NetX names to "lan0" and "wan0" kept me from being confused which was which. Not need for epananda type names.
Epananda's belong on a lunch menu, not network names.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For SATA, there's probably a symlink in /dev/disk/ that'd address what you were trying to do. I added a disk to my desktop recently and didn't even bother with the /dev/sd* names; partuuids are more reliable (and udev is guaranteed not to mess them up).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
For SATA, there's probably a symlink in /dev/disk/ that'd address what you were trying to do. I added a disk to my desktop recently and didn't even bother with the /dev/sd* names; partuuids are more reliable (and udev is guaranteed not to mess them up).


I've added labels to all my sd* drives/partitions to avoid the possibility of drives changing sd order, and didn't want to deal with the long partuuids/uuids.
(my sda drive doesn't change, but I've had my usb drives change driver letters in the past)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
I've added labels to all my sd* drives/partitions to avoid the possibility of drives changing sd order, and didn't want to deal with the long partuuids/uuids. (my sda drive doesn't change, but I've had my usb drives change driver letters in the past)

Snap. I found that a USB HDD’s UUID changes if I unplug the USB HDD and plug it back in again, whereas the Label does not change. Also, Labels are a darn sight easier to remember and recognise than UUIDs or PARTUUIDs, whether or not the drive is a USB drive.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried to label my data drive.
Code:
 e2label /dev/sdb1
e2label: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdb1
/dev/sdb1 contains a jfs file system

Makes sense. Is there a utility for jfs? Probably not scanned by refind anyway.

EDIT:
Found "jfs_tune -L <label> /dev/XXX" but afraid to use it as I found a warning that the equivalent ext4 command will wipe out all data on the partition.
I'd sure hat to lose 1.2TB of data. Would like to move off jfs, but don't have anywhere else to store that data.

I'm getting off-topic. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hack it. Create a test drive (file) with this command and snoop where the label is written. Then use a hex editor on your drive ...
That said, there should be a tool to write labels after the fiesystem is created. No?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Systemd + systemd-manager = Brawndo with electrolytes.
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