Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
(should)/Can we get rid of systemd ???
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2462

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skorefish wrote:
Now we can be vigilant and report such dependencies.
When certain packages start pulling in systemd. Users like me can report them. Is there a kind of a list for doing so?
Unfortunately the only way to do that would be on the bug tracker for the individual project $upstream. Your mileage may vary depending on the mood of whom ever reads your report.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skorefish
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately indeed. I think, when projects are not responding, this path leads to forking or at least writing lots of patches, causing a hell lot of mayhem. Am i right?
So the more functions added to systemd, the more work for developers wanting to support "our freedom of choice"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2462

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That or use alternative software. In general, if a project or company is hostile to the user base I prefer to simply not give them my business at all. In Linux there is an alternative for almost everything.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skorefish
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, i share your opinion, having alternatives makes linux strong
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveL
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5101
Location: The Peanut Gallery

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
it is a shame they didn't do something about it instead of going "meh... so what"
skorefish wrote:
This is what i mean by defending our freedom of choice.
Yes, well they didn't, and they don't, so all the talk from Naib is simply hot-air, imo.
He is really stretching the definition of "freedom" to include the "freedom to abuse", or ignore it and pretend it has no impact on choice in general.
skorefish wrote:
Now we can be vigilant and report such dependencies.
When certain packages start pulling in systemd. Users like me can report them. Is there a kind of a list for doing so?
Sorry, but this actually made me laugh. Gentoo devs generally hate being told anything at all; they usually only grudgingly accept lucid, comprehensive explanations of where they've gone wrong (a simple sentence or two just will not do) and then pretend like it never happened.
Most upstreams do not have a clue about packaging for distribution, so they quite happily accept the kool-aid of someone else doing that work.

As TheDoctor said, though, you will have a better chance with upstream; programmers usually want their code to work on more platforms rather than less. So if you get the patch upstreamed, then file the bug in Gentoo to get it version-bumped, you can sidestep the infamous Gentoo dev unpleasantness.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2348

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to say this without getting political about it. Moderators feel free to modify or remove this post if it crosses a line.

Vigilance: The same organization which sponsors systemd also sponsors many of the other packages with hard links to systemd. This is a for-profit organization with a lot of money, which has had designs on this sort of improvement for decades, and is clearly successful at least in part. Notifying them that one of the many packages they sponsor suddenly has a hard link to systemd will get a response similar to, "Nice that you noticed." Distro managers have little choice but to pull upstream changes. As the gnome-without-systemd group can attest, it gets increasingly difficult to remove the dependencies when the upstream developers are enthusiastically adopting it.

The raging political debate on this forum and in other places centers around whether these changes are good or not, and whether other packages sponsored by other organizations should have such a hard link. I'm not going to voice an opinion one way or the other here. I manage multiple systems with systemd and multiple systems without.

Freedom to abuse: The people making the changes consider them to be beneficial to Linux in general. It's undisputed AFAICT that those changes are financially beneficial to the organization sponsoring systemd.

Freedom of choice: There is a lot of choice in the software you use on Linux, especially concerning window managers and desktop software. Some of them follow the traditional windows-like gui desktop theme (e.g. kde, lxde) and some do something very different (e.g. i3, fvwm). Granted fvwm is antique software but it still works and still has a loyal following. To my (not-comprehensive) knowledge, none of those has hard to an init system links except gnome and that crowd.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skorefish
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The same organization which sponsors systemd also sponsors many of the other packages with hard links to systemd.


The first thing that struck me, trying systemd is they call daemons services. (like wicrosoft services)
So last time, i rode somewhere wicrosoft is sponsoring linux!!!? Is Wicrosoft sponsoring systemd behind the screens???!

about sponsors:
http://0pointer.net/blog/second-round-of-systemdconf-2015-sponsors.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2348

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skorefish wrote:
Quote:
The same organization which sponsors systemd also sponsors many of the other packages with hard links to systemd.


The first thing that struck me, trying systemd is they call daemons services. (like wicrosoft services)
So last time, i rode somewhere wicrosoft is sponsoring linux!!!? Is Wicrosoft sponsoring systemd behind the screens???!

about sponsors:
http://0pointer.net/blog/second-round-of-systemdconf-2015-sponsors.html


No. Systemd predates any interest Microsoft had in Linux by years. They "went public" in the 90s. They worked toward a commercially supported Linux and then started making changes which were sometimes met with enthusiasm and sometimes not.

I recommend a search engine and enter 'systemd', 'systemd debate', etc. Prepare to spend days reading relevant and conflicting information. Note that different sites support different views, and different authors as well. So the information you get from one site will not necessarily match information from another site.

Not surprisingly, sites and authors related to the organization which wrote systemd tend to show statistics indicating that systemd is a fantastic improvement in every way, and sites and authors opposed to it show very different test numbers.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2348

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UNIX, from the time it was multitasking, has called the background tasks which provide services "daemons." I'm not sure exactly when that was, but I'm 52 and I believe the first daemons came into being before I could read or write.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3002
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
UNIX, from the time it was multitasking, has called the background tasks which provide services "daemons." I'm not sure exactly when that was, but I'm 52 and I believe the first daemons came into being before I could read or write.


From wikipedia

The term was coined by the programmers of MIT's Project MAC. They took the name from Maxwell's demon, an imaginary being from a thought experiment that constantly works in the background, sorting molecules.[2] Unix systems inherited this terminology. Maxwell's Demon is consistent with Greek mythology's interpretation of a daemon as a supernatural being working in the background, with no particular bias towards good or evil.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2348

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
1clue wrote:
UNIX, from the time it was multitasking, has called the background tasks which provide services "daemons." I'm not sure exactly when that was, but I'm 52 and I believe the first daemons came into being before I could read or write.


From wikipedia

The term was coined by the programmers of MIT's Project MAC. They took the name from Maxwell's demon, an imaginary being from a thought experiment that constantly works in the background, sorting molecules.[2] Unix systems inherited this terminology. Maxwell's Demon is consistent with Greek mythology's interpretation of a daemon as a supernatural being working in the background, with no particular bias towards good or evil.


Interesting, and thanks. So the term predates my birth. And it also predates Microsoft.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skorefish wrote:
Quote:
The same organization which sponsors systemd also sponsors many of the other packages with hard links to systemd.


The first thing that struck me, trying systemd is they call daemons services. (like wicrosoft services)
So last time, i rode somewhere wicrosoft is sponsoring linux!!!? Is Wicrosoft sponsoring systemd behind the screens???!

about sponsors:
http://0pointer.net/blog/second-round-of-systemdconf-2015-sponsors.html
careful ;) this is starting to feel like a generic systemd thread and thus will get merged into one of the other such threads.

That is why I made my post querying with regards to viewpoint. Its a system engineering concept where different views of the same system are valid in their own right to further the overall understanding. By posting as I did it facilitated drawing out the initial and valid viewpoint of ensuring unintentional tie-ins

If this thread starts taking the viewpoint of general systemd it will unfortunately become a candidate for merging.
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2462

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
If this thread starts taking the viewpoint of general systemd it will unfortunately become a candidate for merging.
Close it is. 8O

Although as it started as a legit support request my inclination would be to lock it rather than merge it, but that might just be me. But please, do try to keep this on topic or take the discussion to the appropriate politics thread. I prefer moderating spammers, not the community.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2348

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might be my fault. I answered the questions because it was the OP asking them, and as I mentioned in that post I knew it was getting close to the line.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skorefish
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, for me the above is part of the question.
(should)/Can we get rid of systemd ???

But please no more details about the politics because there are other threads about that.
Maybe one can post a link.

What i was thinking about. Do other init systems get sponsoring?


Last edited by skorefish on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3002
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skorefish wrote:
What i was thinking about. Do other init systems get sponsoring?


Basically RH is behind systemd, but AFAIK the rest of the init systems aren't backed by anyone but individual developers. If that's what you're wondering.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skorefish
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
rest of the init systems aren't backed by anyone but individual developers.

yep, thats an answer.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenRC
Its Portable between Linux, TrueOS, FreeBSD, and NetBSD
this is just great !!!

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:OpenRC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3002
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things I'll mention openrc isn't an init system, per se.

The other is Hubbs controls openrc and he's clearly in sys-d/RH's corner and seemingly wants to marginalize openrc in favor of sys-d.
At least that's my take based on his previous bonehead contributions to openrc.

Edit to add: No, I don't plan on going much further into sys-d territory as it's been covered in other places. ;)
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Two things I'll mention openrc isn't an init system, per se.

The other is Hubbs controls openrc and he's clearly in sys-d/RH's corner and seemingly wants to marginalize openrc in favor of sys-d.
At least that's my take based on his previous bonehead contributions to openrc.

Edit to add: No, I don't plan on going much further into sys-d territory as it's been covered in other places. ;)
it is, since about 0.23 it has come with its own PID1

There have been three prolific criticism to counter openRC as a viable "modern init system"
1) it isn't PID1
2) no socket activation
3) no daemon keep-alive

Now no one has actually stated whether these are valid but are used to judge... but even then #1 and #3 are possible with OpenRC

Code:

equery b openrc-init
 * Searching for openrc-init ...
sys-apps/openrc-0.38.1 (/sbin/openrc-init)


https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1064510-highlight-openrcinit.html

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skorefish wrote:
Ok, for me the above is part of the question.
(should)/Can we get rid of systemd ???

But please no more details about the politics because there are other threads about that.
Maybe one can post a link.

What i was thinking about. Do other init systems get sponsoring?


The Politics of systemd
The Politics of systemd Part 2
The Politics of systemd Part 3


but anyway... :)
how free of Systemd can a system be? well I do not have it and a large number of users also don't have it so it is possible. However... how many hard-depend on it and thus the end-user must make a choice between foo+systemd or !foo.
I am not sure how many ONLY depend on systemd and short of a crude grep over the tree I am not sure exactly how ... however as captured in this wiki ( https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd ) the list should only be associated with an init system (systemd or openrc) and not a specific package HOWEVER... gnome is one of those that pulled it in explicitly

--edit--
a crude grep has shown an annoying combination... mutter with the wayland USE flag :(

Code:
 USE="wayland" emerge mutter -va

 * IMPORTANT: 1 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
 * Use eselect news read to view new items.


These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/wayland-1.15.0::gentoo  USE="-doc -static-libs" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 423 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] dev-libs/wayland-protocols-1.14::gentoo  98 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] gnome-base/gnome-common-3.18.0-r1:3::gentoo  USE="autoconf-archive" 153 KiB
[ebuild   R    ] media-libs/mesa-18.1.3::gentoo  USE="classic dri3 egl gallium gbm llvm nptl wayland* -bindist -d3d9 -debug -gles1 -gles2 -opencl -openmax -osmesa -pax_kernel -pic (-selinux) -unwind -vaapi -valgrind -vdpau -vulkan -xa -xvmc" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" VIDEO_CARDS="(-freedreno) -i915 -i965 (-imx) -intel -nouveau -r100 -r200 -r300 -r600 -radeon -radeonsi (-vc4) -virgl (-vivante) -vmware" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] sys-apps/systemd-239-r1:0/2::gentoo  USE="acl gcrypt kmod lz4 pam pcre policykit resolvconf seccomp split-usr ssl sysv-utils -apparmor -audit -build -cryptsetup -curl -elfutils -gnuefi -http -idn -importd -libidn2 -lzma -nat -qrcode (-selinux) {-test} -vanilla -xkb" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 7,004 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-7::gentoo  63 KiB
[ebuild   R    ] sys-apps/dbus-1.12.8::gentoo  USE="X systemd* -debug -doc -elogind (-selinux) -static-libs {-test} -user-session" ABI_X86="32 (64) (-x32)" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] sys-power/upower-0.99.7:0/3::gentoo  USE="introspection -doc -ios (-selinux)" 438 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] gnome-base/gnome-desktop-3.24.2:3/12::gentoo  USE="introspection udev -debug {-test}" 1,040 KiB
[ebuild   R    ] x11-base/xorg-server-1.20.0:0/1.20.0::gentoo  USE="glamor ipv6 udev wayland* xorg xvfb -debug -dmx -doc -kdrive -libressl -minimal (-selinux) -static-libs -systemd -unwind -xcsecurity -xephyr -xnest" 5,954 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] gnome-extra/zenity-3.24.0::gentoo  USE="libnotify webkit -debug" 1,060 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] x11-wm/mutter-3.24.4::gentoo  USE="introspection udev wayland -debug -gles2 {-test}" INPUT_DEVICES="-wacom" 3,500 KiB
[blocks B      ] sys-fs/eudev ("sys-fs/eudev" is blocking sys-apps/systemd-239-r1, sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-7)
[blocks B      ] sys-apps/systemd ("sys-apps/systemd" is blocking sys-fs/eudev-3.2.5)
[blocks B      ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration ("sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration" is blocking sys-fs/eudev-3.2.5)
[blocks B      ] sys-apps/sysvinit ("sys-apps/sysvinit" is blocking sys-apps/systemd-239-r1)

Total: 12 packages (9 new, 3 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 19,730 KiB
Conflict: 4 blocks (4 unsatisfied)

...

The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.use" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by sys-apps/systemd-239-r1::gentoo
# required by sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-7::gentoo
>=sys-apps/dbus-1.12.8 systemd

so wayland depends on udev that is linked against systemd WHICH means eudev cannot be used ???
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3002
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
Two things I'll mention openrc isn't an init system, per se.
it is, since about 0.23 it has come with its own PID1


AFAIK openrc depends on a real init under it, sysv, bsd, runit, etc and those indeed do run as PID 1.

I don't think you can run openrc without something under it.

It should be called an "init script provider." :)
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Naib wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
Two things I'll mention openrc isn't an init system, per se.
it is, since about 0.23 it has come with its own PID1


AFAIK openrc depends on a real init under it, sysv, bsd, runit, etc and those indeed to run as PID 1.

I don't think you can run openrc without something under it.

It should be called an "init script provider." :)
nop :) openrc-init is pid1 if you set your system up to use it

I have provided the links and those either gave instructions OR also discussion about the source.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC#openrc-init
Quote:

Beginning with OpenRC 0.25, a new program is provided on Linux, openrc-init, which can replace /sbin/init on startup.

openrc-init will ignore the /etc/inittab file and boot OpenRC directly



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenRC
Quote:


On Unix-like systems, OpenRC is a dependency-based init. Since 0.25 OpenRC includes openrc-init, which can replace /sbin/init, but the default provider for the init program is SysVinit for OpenRC




My only error was stating 0.23, openrc-init came with its own pid1 in 0.25
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3002
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to be correct on that.

Thank gawd I quit following openrc after the teen series. :lol:

openrc-init seems like another of Hubbs braindead ideas though.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While some of hubb's actions have been... Debatable, this one seems valid, non-intrusive (you don't have to), code seems clean and does make OpenRC complete from an init system
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5410
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway...

So far there is GNOME and Wayland that do depend on systemd that are not optional .... Funtoo were able to provide a stub to permit gnome to function but Wayland?
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum