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(should)/Can we get rid of systemd ???
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
... OS/X is just a BSD derivative, and i think it was create when mac became PC themselves (intel cpu, pci express...) ...
Not that I'm disagreeing with your central point, but OS X initially ran on PowerPC Mac hardware.

- John
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
well !plunk comes to mind :)
Indeed it did, a while back, when you ignored what was said about your hot air, and continued to spin out delusional nonsense, apparently based on the idea that we should all just get along and be grateful for whatever fresh turds land on our machines.
Naib wrote:
If kdbus had been accepted as "yet another" IPC (even though plenty already exist, even though all that was needed was dbus code improvements...)
.. Don't think for a minute this has gone away... KDBUS maybe dead but the wish for some IPC exists and equally a bespoke one as BUS1 is still around...
There already is one in kernel for precisely this purpose.
Please, stop acting as though "BUS1" is some sort of real thing.

And no, "dbus code improvements" were not all that was needed; what is needed is to drop it all together, and use the existing kernel facilities designed for purpose, and implemented over 15 years before dbust came along.
Naib wrote:
The real point is it should not have gotten like this..
This type of vangard over Systemd is a waste of effort and if their developers only worked with the wider community there could have been soo much more advancement...
That's true enough.
The reason it gets like this is because people like you sit there and pontificate about how we should all just accept whatever the "devs" throw up this week, and thus give them cover for stupid shenanigans that more seasoned programmers would never even consider.

And yet, OTOH you want to enforce "quality standards" on software developers in line with hardware, when a) that does not work, and b) you excuse all kinds of stupidity by Linux distros (such as being unable to write sh, and then blame shell for their woes.)

Maybe when you work out the inconsistencies in your own basic reasoning, you might have something cogent to add.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Can any of us say that eudev had no effect on udev still being available as standalone?
asturm wrote:
I don't think eudev is in any way relevant to systemd upstream, considering how they usually operate.
Way to completely miss the point.

As if Poeterring does not care about the "competition." LMAO.
Naib wrote:
This type of vangard over Systemd is a waste of effort and if their developers only worked with the wider community
asturm wrote:
Yeah. Never will we get back those hours spent to make up for that.
The problem is that you refuse even to acknowledge the problems that mean your clique is so susceptible to being made into marks.

But that's okay, because y'all have a neat line in bitchy putdowns.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
[...] when you use words like "cherish", or suggest I'm "imposing [my] view", or ask why I "care so much", then it's a clear sign you're engaging in a rhetorical strategy designed to make it seem like I have some personal bent, and so don't have, or haven't made, a substantive argument. This is little more than an ad hominum ... and I reject it as such.

Naib wrote:
khayyam I am just reflecting back to you your own rhetoric. go re-read how you have responded to me in a few posts and reflect on that THEN read what you just wrote and attribute it to what you write. Then we can talk

khayyam wrote:
Naib ... that's classic OTW bleed over. So, no, you go read, reflect, and then ... hah!

Naib wrote:
*sigh* ... lets just assign a label and dismiss the label without validating the assignment...

Naib ... I see, so now "reflecting back to you" is not such a fun way to bury your interlocutor under BS? What you are accusing me of is exactly the type of "rhetorical strategy" I'd pointed to, and which you've claimed, falsely, you're simply reflecting back on me ... yet, now you want me to treat you fairly for some strange reason, and qualify my use of an obvious ad hominum. What next, you'll report me? ... oh, wait.

Naib wrote:
You are asserting that systemd perspective should be applied here while the rest of us are advocating getting on with being gentoo and being about choice. What systemd and systemd dev's think is moot from the point of view of Gentoo.

No, I've asserted that such a conception of "choice" is logically flawed, that's where I came into the discussion. All you've supplied to counter that assertion is an attempt to bury me under the weight of "the rest of us" ... or other rhetorical tricks.

Naib wrote:
This is getting tedious, ill just let the moderators deal with you

... indeed, only the tediousness is entirely on you. As for the report, be assured I will contest it.

best ... khay
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asturm
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
But that's okay, because y'all have a neat line in bitchy putdowns.

I feel sorry for you. Really, this is coming from the heart. You're truly great when giving support to others, but there is so much bitterness with certain topics, that your posts deteriorate into senseless rants.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that's that. Contact us via the usual means if you have a strong opinion as to whether this should be merged into The Politics of systemd series or just left alone. Also, I have merged the two halves.

- John
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