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axl Veteran
Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 1144 Location: Romania
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: systemd is actually your friend. |
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tread lightly axl. i know.
look. i just want to point out a feature of journalctl that i actually love and saved me a lot of work.
in light of this thread: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1081722-highlight-.html and in light of the bug report that resulted from it, it have to say...
journalctl --list-boots and then journalctl -b the whatever boot log you want... is a feature. not a bug.
and the ability to choose between persistent/volatile/none. i marvel at people who would resist these features.
i say... well, i've heard all arguments. just give it a try. aliens wont steal your data.
PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
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Marcih Apprentice
Joined: 19 Feb 2018 Posts: 213
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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axl wrote: | yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
Ah yes, the classic "old = bad" rhetoric.
You know, I refuse to use music streaming services and rather buy an album on a CD (or even vinyl if I'm feeling like getting ripped off), plop it in my CD player and listen to it from start to finish; I find it very had to do that with streaming services, it's usually on a smart-phone or a PC and there are too many distractions for me to be able to enjoy my music.
CDs are from the last century, the mid-late 80s I believe. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how great music streaming services are?
I also like books. If I'm looking for something (information), my first trip will be to the library and not my PC (only if I can't find what I'm looking for will I search for it on the Web). I could read Stallman's book (I forget what it's called, the one that entirely consists of his articles about free software) on the Web for free, it's publicly available, yet I'm still looking to order it.
Books are certainly older than last century. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how e-readers are actually the greatest thing since sliced bread and how those crusty old paper book are totally legacy?
I very much like the Linux kernel and the GNU tools. In fact, it's those that are allowing me to write this post.
The GNU project started in 1984, Linux kernel version 0.01 was released in 1991. While both under active development today, their goals and design philosophies haven't changed.
GNU and Linux are both from the last century. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how we should give this new OS called systemd/RedHatinux a try instead of using this stupid, outdated GNU/Linux joke of an OS?
You can probably tell that the third example was heavily tongue-in-cheek, and I suspect that so was your post-scriptum, but my point still stands: one need not replace their old tools they are familiar with with shiny new ones solely for the reason of them being older than the new thing. A sentence from the Debian wiki article on argument why they should stay on SysV sums it up best: Someone from Debian with common sense wrote: | We don't execute people just because they are old, and worship people just because they are new; we shouldn't do so with technology. |
By all means, keep on using systemd, that's why you're here on Gentoo, it's all about choice. Interestingly enough, you won't find people here on the forums telling everyone how great $(NEW_INIT) is, it's always been systemd, which certainly activates my almonds.
(Yes, I know, I'm responding to a likely bait/troll or at least flame-inducing thread that we've had zillions of over the years, but I never got to participate in one of them so give me a break ) _________________
Bones McCracker wrote: | It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck. |
NeddySeagoon wrote: | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
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Ant P. Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I really don't understand why "my init system has bespoke syntax for emulating logrotate and a tmpfs line in /etc/fstab" needs an entire thread |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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axl wrote: |
journalctl --list-boots and then journalctl -b the whatever boot log you want... is a feature. not a bug.
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just like User=0day wasn't a bug ....
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-311900864 _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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axl wrote: | [...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".
best ... khay |
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Yamakuzure Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 2284 Location: Adendorf, Germany
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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khayyam wrote: | axl wrote: | [...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".
best ... khay | Isn't openrc from this century, too? _________________ Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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Yamakuzure wrote: | khayyam wrote: | axl wrote: | [...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".
best ... khay | Isn't openrc from this century, too? | That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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Yamakuzure wrote: | Isn't openrc from this century, too? :D |
Yamakuzure ... you'd have to ask The Doctor, he's the timelord around here :)
best ... khay |
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Yamakuzure Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 2284 Location: Adendorf, Germany
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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Naib wrote: | Yamakuzure wrote: | khayyam wrote: | axl wrote: | [...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century. |
axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".
best ... khay | Isn't openrc from this century, too? | That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century | Then we'll wait for the inclusion of "centuryd", right? Otherwise all calculation of times is futile! _________________ Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. |
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Naib wrote: | That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century |
Yamakuzure wrote: | Then we'll wait for the inclusion of "centuryd", right? Otherwise all calculation of times is futile! |
Yamakuzure ... systemd is (obviously) far more forward looking than that ... a thousand year reichd demands millenniad ... its '--rewrite-history' feature means there's no reason to wait, as you can enjoy the future today!
best ... khay |
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Ant P. Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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On a computing timescale, the closest analogy we have to a century is probably the distance between now and the release date of whatever kernel runs on consumer routers still on the market. I've seen numbers ranging from 2.6.7 to 2.6.16, so about a dozen years.
That numbering seems to check out; we average 2 world wars per century, and redhat reinvents the wheel and forces it on everyone every 6 years or so… |
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Hu Moderator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21633
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:51 am Post subject: |
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systemd has many designed-in behaviors. Some of these are features. Some are anti-features. Given enough designed-in behaviors, at least one of them will eventually be a useful feature. The presence of one, or even a few, useful features does not absolve it for all the anti-features. |
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Tony0945 Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 5127 Location: Illinois, USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Ant P. wrote: | and redhat reinvents the wheel and forces it on everyone every 6 years or so… |
Oh, please let RH junk systemd for Linux10 or whatever soon! |
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The Doctor Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 am Post subject: |
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I have a bad feeling about this. Obvious troll is obvious. Would anyone care for a Jelly Baby?
As the "Politics of Systemd" threads seem to have been left to the dust this thread may have a place, but was trying to provoke a flame war really necessary? Success will certainly be marked with a locked thread.
Different software has different features. Depending on what you want to do one may be better suited than another. Last I checked sysadmins were fleeing systemd in droves, so the market speaks. You certainly don't want to piss off a sysadmin. Or a Dalek, but that is a different discussion. _________________ First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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skellr l33t
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 975 Location: The Village, Portmeirion
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Systemd is awesome! It will create btrfs subvolumes I didn't even know I needed! |
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berferd Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 117
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:28 am Post subject: |
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skellr wrote: | Systemd is awesome! It will create btrfs subvolumes I didn't even know I needed! |
This new learning amazes me! |
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Anon-E-moose Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 6098 Location: Dallas area
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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A flame-bait thread????? _________________ PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
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P.Kosunen Guru
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Finland
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proteusx Guru
Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 338
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 54237 Location: 56N 3W
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Another systemd topic gone bad
Sorry about the few minutes in the dustbin. I clicked the wrong button. _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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