Windows 10 & Gentoo on 2018

Xywa · Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:12 am Post subject: Windows 10 & Gentoo on 2018

Hi,

After 10 years or more of not using Windows (last one was Vista), I need a new laptop with a Windows (for PremierePro), as kdenlive is not enough for my work.

My question is, how is a best way (in 2018) to install / use both Windows 10 / Gentooo (dual boot)? I will have probably one big partition with Windows 10 after buying, or maybe is possible to ask before the buy to have a system with few partitions. Or maybe (based on your experience), do you think I should manually format the whole disc (as I used to do in 2008) t, made all partitions under Gentoo starter disc first. Then install both systems. What are your toughs in this area?

I want use Windows just for PremierePro and maybe Gaming, and Gentoo for rest of work. It is possible to make Gentoo data on Gentoo partions safe from Windows - eg. if I have some viruses or malicious software, which could read or even encrypt partition like "Your personal files are encrypted” ransomware". I would like to have my Gentoo partition unvisable for Windows and all their spy agenda.

Unfortunately, is not possible to have a Windows on external disc, so I could plug in, run Windows, then plug off after the work - so I need to have bot on the same hard-drive in laptop.

Thank you for any answers and links.
P.S. I have no idea what is uefi (I use system with old fashion BIOS), so this also a reason I am asking.

Marcih · Apprentice Joined: 19 Feb 2018 Posts: 213

Yamakuzure · Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:24 am Post subject:

I have a Laptop with Windows 10 and Gentoo on it.

My method for installation was this:

Switch to UEFI boot
Enable Legacy Boot mode (Windows can't boot otherwise)
Install Windows (7 back then), but configure the partitions by hand:
(Note: I have a 1TB HD and enabled GPT)
- C: 60GB System
- D: 40GB Data (shared with Gentoo)
- P: 100GB Programs
After Windows was installed, I used the Gentoo based System Rescue CD to install Gentoo on the remaining disk space.
(I have a rather crazy HD layout including VeraCrypt-Containers that are bound together using ZFS-RAID, so my configuration isn't something I'd recommend.)
My Laptop is a Dell Precision, which has a rather good UEFI Boot Editor, so I used that to add loading of the grub.efi as the first and default option.

My Laptop loads Grub by default, with which I can choose kernel versions. If I want to Boot Windows, I have to hit F12 on startup to bring up the BIOS boot menu, where I can select Windows.
_________________
Important German:

"Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
"Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.

The Doctor · Moderator Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678

It is far easier now than it has ever been. Star with windows, factory install is fine. Use windows to shrink itself to make room for Gentoo. Install Gentoo on the free space. You will have to use a GPT partition scheme with a UEFI boot scheme.

For the boot loader you have several choices. You can use grub2, which is the most painful and the option I would avoid. You can use rEFInd which just works. Or you can edit the bootloader on the laptop to do it for you. I like this option best. The kernels can set right next to the window kernel so no need to create /boot partitions

And of course, turn off secure boot then turn it off again.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.

tuggbuss · Apprentice Joined: 20 Mar 2017 Posts: 222

Wouldn't EFI stub be simpler on the Gentoo side? No need for a boot loader.

Xywa · Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:54 pm Post subject:

Thanks for such quick answer

Do you think is possible in grub starter to make a password for Windows partition, so wont be possible to start Windows without a password?

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21631

elnll002 · n00b Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 9

In my case, I have windows 10 in a whole separated disk and I dont have any problem..

jonathan183 · Guru Joined: 13 Dec 2011 Posts: 318

Xywa · Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:09 pm Post subject:

The Doctor · Moderator Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678

You can google rEFInd and get all the documentation you will ever need, including how to install it from windows which is prefered.

As for partitions, the /boot is the only one that has any reason to change. UEFI reads a FAT partition and attempts to load the predifined kernel, usually /efi/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI. For simplicity on my gentoo only machine this is what my kernel is named, but it is easy to edit with the proper tools available in the portage tree. With windows, your kernel can live next to the windows kernel on this FAT partition. The reason to do this is that UEFI only reads the FAT partition so any kernels on an ext* would be invisible to it. And since this partition must exist anyway why not just put the kernel in it.

The way rEFInd works is that you edit the boot preference to boot it with the highest priority. Then it scans all the partitions and assembles a list of bootable kernels. Once you have made your selection it will boot that kernel. Practically nothing for you to configure or do. The only catch is your linux kernels need their command line built in.

Other than the early boot process there is no difference between this and an older install so you can do as you please there.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.

Cuong Nguyen · Apprentice Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Posts: 152

From my experience for Dual or Multiboot Windows 10 and unlimited linux distros.

A. Semi-automatic installl
Switch to UEFI mode.
Install Windows 10 to blank HDD (no partitions) by using USB created with rufus from Windows ISO to GPT UEFI mode. This step is to make sure your disk is GPT partitioned during default install.
Resize Windows partition to 50%
Create partition (usually /dev/sda5 of 2G-4G for /boot, the size depends on how many linux distros you will install.
Create 1 partition for the rest of the disk as LVM and create root and swap volume group

B. Manual install
Use system rescure cd to boot
use gdisk /dev/sda and partition your hard disk as follows
sda1 = 499MB type 2700 --> Windows RE
sda2 = 200MB to 511MB type EF00 --> EFI. Microsoft requires 100MB for EFI but I personally prefer 511MB which is enough space for storing EFI RAM DISK full boot image (around 200MB) if I want to full-encryption hard disk with luks, lvm.
sda3 = 16MB type 0C01 Microsoft Reserved. This partition for Microsoft to move data for resizing partition by Microsoft. I dont know how exactly will Windows use this partition, but default installation of Windows creates this partition. For Windows Server system this partition upto 127MB
sda4 = 50% of your hard disk or 60GB at least for Windows 10 C: system drive (type 0700)
sda5 = 2GB - to 4GB type 8300 whill be formatted as ext2 or ext4 for /boot partition, vmlinuz and initram will reside there, so if you plan to boot up to 4-5 different Linux Distro allocate 4GB each linux distro consume about 200-250MB space for vmlinuz and initramfs files.
sda6 = the rest of your hard disk or 32GB as minimum for a linux desktop distro. type 8E00 I use LVM gentoo-vg. On this LVM I will create root and swap LVs.
continue with sda7, sda8... as LVM for each linux distro if you will use more than 1 linux distro.

I dont use GRUB boot manager but opted rEFInd boot manager, which I found easier to create multi os booting confiuration stanzas.

Here is my 250GB HDD to boot Windows and 6 different Linux distros:

Yamakuzure · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 am Post subject:

@Cuong Nguyen : That looks great!

Unfortunately I can't have that many, my EFI only allows three boot entries. :-(

rEFInd lists 6, but three are reserved.
_________________
Important German:

"Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
"Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.

Cuong Nguyen · Apprentice Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Posts: 152

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

I would NOT dual boot.

Dual boot means you can never access all of your installed functionality at the same time.

I would take the OS you use most (Gentoo, from the sounds of it) and put that on the bare metal. Then install a virtualization server like KVM or VMware or VirtualBox, as appropriate, and install Windows on that.

From the sounds of it you don't have a bare-metal license for Windows 10 anyway, and IMO the only rational way to use Windows is to throw the pre-installed image in the trash and install from a clean iso from Microsoft. That's the only way it will work in a VM anyway, so go buy a license key off an authorized reseller site.

Yamakuzure · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:09 am Post subject:

olger901 · l33t Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 625

If you want full functionality:

- Install Microsoft Windows 10 in UEFI mode with Secure Boot enabled and use the entire disk;
- Resize the disk after installation in Microsoft Windows and define how much you want to use for Linux;
- Disable Secure Boot and install Gentoo Linux using SysRescueCD;
- Partition Linux on the leftover space;
- Copy the kernel to the ESR (EFI) VFAT partition;
- Install PreLoader or Shim and sign your kernel and modules;
- Create an EFI entry for Shim or PreLoader;
- Reboot and enable Secure Boot;

Do NOT attempt to install Grub or modify the Microsoft Windows Boot Loader obviously.

Both Microsoft Windows and Linux should be able to using Secure Boot and work next to one and another, but be careful with Microsoft Windows Upgrades to new Microsoft Windows 10 versions, because they might "update" (wipe) your ESR partition. So make sure you backup that partition regularly.

Cuong Nguyen · Apprentice Joined: 18 Jan 2018 Posts: 152

Keruskerfuerst · Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:31 am Post subject:

I have a three boot system on my self assebled computer.
1. Win 10
2. Gentoo
3. Manjaro

Windows creates a vfat partition from where the UEFI Bios boots from.

In the UEFI Bios there is a boot manager, where you can select the boot entries.

Everything else is mentioned in the post above.

arnvidr · l33t Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 629 Location: Oslo, Norway

I installed Win 10 on a separate drive, it still installed its boot loader in my EFI partition on my main drive. I didn't plan for it to do that, but that worked out fine. Point the BIOS to boot my grub EFI install, and have a chainload entry in my grub menu.

If I didn't have it for gaming I would have gone for a VM, but maybe you need a license for that? On my bare metal install, the only thing I've noticed about running unlicensed (downloaded iso from Microsoft) is that I can't change my background picture. No big deal.
_________________

Marlo · Veteran Joined: 26 Jul 2003 Posts: 1591

charles17 · Advocate Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 3664