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Strong nuclear force - Who made that shit up?
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patrix_neo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Strong nuclear force - Who made that shit up? Reply with quote

As I have inturpretated it (ye, suxit) Gluon is bond by this. What an explanation!!!!
Just a coffee break?

What I don't get is, that mass equal what the Higs gives it. THEN you have the corellation with mass and energy. What if massloss in electrons whithin the Higsfields happen? Then mass would decrease?
Then limit of speed of light would...uhh...change
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying you're wrong, but.............why don't you back up a bit and start over? :lol:
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a) No,the gluon is the strong force
b) Theorized by Murray Gell-Mann in 62, confirmed by experiment 78 and again 79.

Trust me, you don't want to go down this path without graduate level calculus and number theory.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:

Trust me, you don't want to go down this path without graduate level calculus and number theory.


Hey, I am a savvy math-guru. I know multiplication! ...I spelled that correctly, just because I am that good.

Thanks for the explanation. I like gluon. Makes the universe go 'rond. I was looking at a lecture and the speaker did simplifications of the core of his essay. Then I might have miss heard.. I am sincerely interested in what gluon is made of. I just heard it's the only thing keeping the three musketeers together, so they can make up either a proton or a neutron (maybe there is more circumstances where it does it's work?).

So, strong force - we know and can be confirmed. How about the weak force? Has that one too been confirmed? (I read this in a book by Isaac Asimov in 1977 or such, "Cosmic Eggs" ).

EDIT: Why do I hear 'gluons' like in plural? It's as you said a force. Singular. It just made my brain do a half-nelson.


Last edited by patrix_neo on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the weak force is the exchange of W and Z bosons. Also observed in 1983.

The problem with asking what gluons and W and Z bosons are made of runs up against the problem: we don't know. They are fundamental particles as far as experiment can determine. Possibly superstrings.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With exchange, there is a photon process involved?
If there are superstrings, you have a problem if that involves Super symmetry. I've heard it has encountered a bump in the road to success. Just a fragment memory I have from a month back.

What about being loopy then?
If the particles are wave forms as in the interference problem they might detatch from the loop and get stringy, then back again. To what I can assume is it's more normal form.
I guess that's not a new thing.

(I am Penny here, as when she was memorizing what Sheldon just told her).

a) It might take some time. Impatient as we are, simpletons, we like to get an answer as fast we can search for it on the interwebs.
b) It would be nice if someone could put the math into words. If you know what I mean.Brian Cox and Niels de Grass Tyson is off putting. They are sell-outs!
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love string theory! Lots of babbling, lots of 'theorists', and no way to falsify it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ this.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<-this->
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
With exchange, there is a photon process involved?
Well, you can stick photons basically anywhere. whether or not it is probable is another story.
patrix_neo wrote:
If there are superstrings, you have a problem if that involves Super symmetry. I've heard it has encountered a bump in the road to success. Just a fragment memory I have from a month back.
Mathematically super symmetry is just too perfect to go away. This really gets into the number theory but think of it a bit like OJ Simpson. We all know he did it, but the conviction just somehow isn't happening. It probably will eventually. The math just looks right.

patrix_neo wrote:
What about being loopy then?
If the particles are wave forms as in the interference problem they might detatch from the loop and get stringy, then back again. To what I can assume is it's more normal form.
I guess that's not a new thing.
Logic need not apply. The rules at this level are very different from the ones up here and we are basically just at the "my math can describe what is happening" stage. Anyone who says otherwise is speculating.

As for strings vs loop quantum gravity, yes speculations. Personally I think strings have the edge due to how the theory was discovered. However, the problem is that some of the math and computers required to solve it have not been invented yet.

I'll be first in line to call both of these speculations, and string theory was my focus in school. Not that I was ever any good at it.

patrix_neo wrote:
a) It might take some time. Impatient as we are, simpletons, we like to get an answer as fast we can search for it on the interwebs.
b) It would be nice if someone could put the math into words. If you know what I mean.Brian Cox and Niels de Grass Tyson is off putting. They are sell-outs!
Yes, of course. The problem is even top experts in the field are basically just using the "shut up and calculate it" interpretation plus some speculation. The words just are not there to describe it.

I usually cringe when Brian or Tyson offers an explanation. It is just so simplified or even implies a wrong model. Feynman once remarked on how we really don't understand QED or QCD. He was right and I think a lot of scientists are too arrogant to admit it publicly.
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patrix_neo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The arrogance, I know about that one...anyways! Not to do with me...I'd say!
As I see it, you do have some insight. (makes Cox and Tyson boy-toys). I do hate that way to close a subject of this matter. Making it a talk-show case? Nope.

I won't go in to the matters you did in my post. I get about....some. One thing I want to say though is this:

The philosophical part of this field could open up. Where there is a stale-mate, some big math guys getting a vent in philosophy just might do their thing...When it turns serious enough. Just to say there is an opening. While at the same time doing the math. True form of natures calling.
I mean, if an alien would explain gravity, we would have something to talk about.
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