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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many threads about improving Portage therefore you may be interested by this new: mgorny creates a fork.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A fork that claims that it will never be a "mainstream" thing because others invested more resources for a more advanced Portage improvement without their work being rewarded makes me wonder if this is not just another "me too" project. The NIH is strong in Open Source land.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helecho wrote:
There are many threads about improving Portage therefore you may be interested by this new: mgorny creates a fork.
Split from the 2014 thread as this is a new effort and not directly related to the events from 4 years ago.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helecho,

I think I'll leave that as a playground for the adventurous.

Any good stuff that comes out of it will get folded back into the official portage.
That will be soon enough for me.
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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin, your judgement is unfounded because this discussion is off-topic. Please, stay on topic!!
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was not off-topic before the split. May I ask you for a less hostile attitude?

Concerning above assumptions, I don't think that good things will be integrated with Portage that soon. It has not moved much in the past decade.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look there: https://bugs.gentoo.org/643386
See mgorny comment (and it's about portage in case you miss)?

And you are putting any hope for portage coming from him, sorry if i smile
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin,

I don't mind portage moving slowly ... the first requirement for a Package Manager is that it 'does the right thing', that changes with time.
For some things, I'm happy with 'last out of the past' rather than 'first into the future' :)

I get enough excitement from ~arm64 without wondering if the package manager has done the right thing.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't misunderstand me: I still get my thrill off systems which still work with 30-year-old manuals. But a little more speed while calculating dependencies is something I would like to see.
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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will not move forward if you refuse initiatives. It is just a new information that may be useful to some people.

-- edit: removed the linked threads in this post.

I will have created my own package manager if I could have.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helecho wrote:
We will not move forward if you refuse initiatives. It is just a new information that may be useful to some people.

-- edit: removed the linked threads in this post.

I will have created my own package manager if I could have.

We're not moving forward with one busybody yelling demands from their armchair non-stop either.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
Look there: https://bugs.gentoo.org/643386
See mgorny comment (and it's about portage in case you miss)? ...
Wow. Just...wow.

- John
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Juippisi
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, mgorny has done a lot to portage. Sent many patches on different things and has worked on EAPI 7 probably more than anyone. I can understand how he feels when the patches are not getting to main portage, but fragmenting an already smallish distro doesnt sound good either.

Oh well, because I like mgorny,
Code:

[ebuild   R    ] sys-apps/portage-mgorny-2.3.24.1::gentoo  USE="(ipc) native-extensions xattr -build (-selinux)" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6"
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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small community???

website wrote:
Of course, Gentoo is more than just software. It is also a community around the distribution. Gentoo benefits from around 250 developers and thousands of users, many of which are experts in their fields. The distribution project provides the means for the users to enjoy Gentoo: documentation, infrastructure, release engineering, software porting, quality assurance, security followup, hardening, and more.


helecho
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juippisi wrote:
Well, mgorny has done a lot to portage. ...
No argument. That bug was just surprising, though: adding a dependently to a package when it was trivially easy to avoid it.

- John
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Any good stuff that comes out of it will get folded back into the official portage.
That will be soon enough for me.
This, exactly.
Portage is the heart of Gentoo.

Apply new features by rushing and the likelyhood of eding up with broken software rises significantly.
With projects like portage, it's best to move step by step.
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Maitreya
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested and will try it an VM to compare.

Don't get the hatred tho.
He is trying something.
Good for him.
He is not forcing you to you use it.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maitreya wrote:
Don't get the hatred tho.
He is trying something.
Good for him.
He is not forcing you to you use it.
https://github.com/mgorny/portage/blob/master/README wrote:
README:
What's the long-term plan?  It's unlikely for this fork to replace
Portage.  However, its goal is to follow the example set by projects
such as libav and libressl.  They never became mainstream but they made
the respective original projects 'wake up' and start solving at least
some of the problems that were ignored before.  Hopefully this project
will also make Portage developers reconsider their attitude and start
working on improving Portage rather than just keeping it alive.
This is why I love open source.
That fork can be seen as a test platform for proof of concepts. I more than welcome project like this. It's good for the Portage project and community.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
This is why I love open source.
That fork can be seen as a test platform for proof of concepts. I more than welcome project like this. It's good for the Portage project and community.

I would expect that pretty soon systemd and dbus would become requirements based on the Dev.
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tld
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
This is why I love open source.
That fork can be seen as a test platform for proof of concepts. I more than welcome project like this. It's good for the Portage project and community.
Yea, but the fact that he used libav as an example is a little stunning. The reason I refused to to within 1,000 miles of that one was their decision to use the same fucking library names as ffmpeg...just to force everyone to make a choice. That's not "waking up" anyone. That's just being the biggest dick in the room.

Tom
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asturm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Zucca wrote:
This is why I love open source.
That fork can be seen as a test platform for proof of concepts. I more than welcome project like this. It's good for the Portage project and community.

I would expect that pretty soon systemd and dbus would become requirements based on the Dev.

You don't always have to try that hard.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
README:
Hopefully this project will also make Portage developers reconsider their attitude and start
working on improving Portage rather than just keeping it alive.

this is more an insult than anything else against portage dev who are assume wanking and doing the minimum

well, from my bug handling i could say portage devs are doing the work, the issue was handle fast, and fix as fast and just seen number of portage release prove he's wrong

And, for my bug, he is angry against them when they have done it all right!
So for me, i have no doubt of who is the one with bad attitude, and i'm happy he is not in charge of portage
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asturm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn, on the other hand Portage should not be in the business of supporting out-of-tree packages just because some users refuse a dependency based on vague feelings. You should not base your critique of the fork on that particular bug though, it has nothing to do with it.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn, I don't know the background of that particular fork and its history. My post should maybe looked at more general level of why forks of open source projects usually tend to cause only good progress.

I saw that the README not written in the most polite way towards the current "mainline" Portage developerrs. Sadly. I still hope this wouldn't affect the cooperation efforts of these two pprojects. But yeah, it surely doesn't help the cooperation either. :|
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
Zucca wrote:
This is why I love open source.
That fork can be seen as a test platform for proof of concepts. I more than welcome project like this. It's good for the Portage project and community.
Yea, but the fact that he used libav as an example is a little stunning. The reason I refused to to within 1,000 miles of that one was their decision to use the same fucking library names as ffmpeg...just to force everyone to make a choice. That's not "waking up" anyone. That's just being the biggest dick in the room.

Tom

The reason I steered well clear of libav was seeing it in vulnerability alerts weekly, each with a long list of CVE-${two_years_old} numbers dated from when ffmpeg fixed them, meanwhile they were busy sneering about how they were the new upstream. Good riddance to that trash and everyone to blame for it.
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