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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: x11-libs/gtk+:2 effectively requiring x11-libs/gtk+:3 now? Reply with quote

As if it wasn't annoying enough that a minor gtk+2 update quietly changed the default theme on me some time back...now it appears that by way of a requirement for that theme and a new version of it is now effectively requiring gtk+3 in order to have gtk+2 (from emerge -t output):
Code:
[nomerge       ]   x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.31-r1:2::gentoo  USE="cups introspection (-aqua) -examples {-test} -vim-syntax -xinerama"
[ebuild     U  ]    x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.24.0::gentoo [3.22.0-r2::gentoo] USE="-branding" 20,233 KiB
[ebuild  NS    ]     x11-libs/gtk+-3.22.19:3::gentoo [2.24.31-r1:2::gentoo] USE="X cups introspection (-aqua) -broadway -cloudprint -colord -examples {-test} -vim-syntax -wayland -xinerama" 18,400 KiB

A diff between x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.22.0-r2 and x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.24.0 includes this:
Code:
> # gtk+:3 is needed for build for the gtk-encode-symbolic-svg utility
> # librsvg is needed for gtk-encode-symbolic-svg to be able to read the source SVG via its pixbuf loader and at runtime for rendering scalable icons shipped by the theme
...snip...
29a32
>    x11-libs/gtk+:3

As per the link above, I'm not even using that them, but it's apparently required:
Code:
equery d x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme
 * These packages depend on x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme:
virtual/freedesktop-icon-theme-0-r2 (x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme)
x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.31-r1 (>=x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.14)

For now I'm going to see if masking the newer version of the theme (luckily the old one is still in portage) prevents this, but ffs...I don't want gtk+3. This is BS of the highest order. I just looked and it appears this happened here:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=580356

Is that theme really required by gtk2 if it's not being used? There must be a way to avoid this.

Tom
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

git log:
commit dab39d90ee5ce42e5d5c6694853a8080af0fd4c2
Author: Mart Raudsepp <leio@gentoo.org>
Date:   Sun Aug 27 17:25:59 2017 +0300

    x11-libs/gtk+: Move adwaita-icon-theme to PDEPEND to fix circular dep
   
    adwaita-icon-theme requires gtk+:3 at build time to properly generate the
    symbolic PNG icons from SVG files with the gtk-encode-symbolic-svg tool,
    which is shipped by gtk+:3. Thus adwaita-icon-theme depend in gtk+:3 can
    not be a runtime only RDEPEND, but has to be PDEPEND due to PMS rule:
    "Runtime dependencies (RDEPEND). These must be installed and usable before
    the results of an ebuild merging are treated as usable."
    Should be fine to install adwaita-icon-theme afterwards in the order, to
    satisfy default theme icons.
   
    Gentoo-bug: 628076
    Package-Manager: Portage-2.3.6, Repoman-2.3.2

What package require virtual/freedesktop-icon-theme? In my case is firefox
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
What package require virtual/freedesktop-icon-theme? In my case is firefox
I have requirements for firefox and thunderbird. While I'm actually using palemoon now and could uninstall firefox, I do in fact need thunderbird. What a fucking mess. So a theme I don't want and am not using in gtk+2 has a "build time" dependency that requires me to install gtk+3? What isn't wrong with that picture?

For now, by blocking the newer version of x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme I was able to get gyk3+ out of there, but I'm sure that's temporary at best. I also found that apparently the new version of x11-libs/wxGTK requires gtk+3 as well, but I was able to get rid of it and the few things that needed it. this shit is starting to piss me off.

Tom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do realise though, that gtk+:2 does not exactly have a future? The troubling dependencies here aside...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably so, but based on some of the unimaginable quotes I was reading here while searching on this topic, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the "future" of gtk+:3 (especially once gtk+:2 is gone) included a systemd dependency just like gnome. I frankly wish I could avoid all their crap.
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it happens we'll see but now gtk has nothing to do with systemd.
Furthermore gtk working also in windows system (and other system without systemd) and I doubt that this will binded with systemd
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld ...

you can avoid the buildtime dependency via package.provided, I've noticed no detrimental effects from the following:

grep adwaita /etc/portage/profile/package.provided:
/etc/portage/profile/package.provided:x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.22.0

That said, I'm not using a DE, or anything that requires gtk+2 other than firefox, so YMMV.

eix -eI --format '<installedversions:NAMEVERSION>' gtk+:
x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.31-r1

HTH & best ... khay
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
You do realise though, that gtk+:2 does not exactly have a future? The troubling dependencies here aside...


realise that is gtk2 work well, gtk3 support brakes package

Insanely you can mask gtk2 in much more packages, but you can't get stable working system environment with that
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just blocked the virtual and used the one from before, though I like khayyam's work around.

And for those who say gtk2 has no future, it's managed to hang around for the simple reason
that there are too many that have decided not to switch to gtk3,
so it's rather obtuse to say that, IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
And for those who say gtk2 has no future, it's managed to hang around for the simple reason
that there are too many that have decided not to switch to gtk3,
so it's rather obtuse to say that, IMO.

No, it is just stating the obvious. The lifetime of gtk2 is not depending on people or packages using it, but developers maintaining it. That is the case as of yet, but 2.24 is now frozen for 6 years already and it is not going to be permanent. webkit-gtk2 and anything depending on it was dropped already.

By comparison, Qt4 is now removed everywhere after being unmaintained for two years (no more upstream releases at all), and distributions are cleaning out packages depending on it everywhere.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
tld ...

you can avoid the buildtime dependency via package.provided, I've noticed no detrimental effects from the following:

grep adwaita /etc/portage/profile/package.provided:
/etc/portage/profile/package.provided:x11-themes/adwaita-icon-theme-3.22.0

Interesting. I've never used package.provided before. I take it that will cause any dependencies to just assume it's there...and then I can just see if uninstalling it causes any issues?

I think I'll give that a try. Thanks!

Tom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
khayyam wrote:
[...] you can avoid the buildtime dependency via package.provided [...]

Interesting. I've never used package.provided before. I take it that will cause any dependencies to just assume it's there...and then I can just see if uninstalling it causes any issues? I think I'll give that a try. Thanks!

tld ... correct & you're welcome.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems to have worked perfectly and the gtk apps I use (which are using the Raleigh theme) all seem fine with that theme removed altogether. The only other possibility might be an issue compiling gtk+2 itself, though that would surprise me. I just added a comment here where someone had already pointed out this bizarre dependency situation:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569552

Thanks again!
Tom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
And for those who say gtk2 has no future, it's managed to hang around for the simple reason
that there are too many that have decided not to switch to gtk3,
so it's rather obtuse to say that, IMO.

GTK2 has lasted ~15 years because it's simple, a stable base to build on, and works cross-platform. Gtk3 is not an upgrade path for those requirements, Qt5 is - eventually everything will move over to that. Probably even GIMP.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
And for those who say gtk2 has no future, it's managed to hang around for the simple reason
that there are too many that have decided not to switch to gtk3,
so it's rather obtuse to say that, IMO.

GTK2 has lasted ~15 years because it's simple, a stable base to build on, and works cross-platform. Gtk3 is not an upgrade path for those requirements, Qt5 is - eventually everything will move over to that. Probably even GIMP.


I use a handful of gtk2 apps as well as a few qt4 apps.
I've not found a compelling use case for either gtk3 or qt5 at the moment.

Though if more apps move to qt5 vs gtk3, that's ok in my book.

I used early gtk3, and wasn't impressed either with the "newness" or the constant breakage from rev to rev.
And yes I know that the breakage aspect is under control, AFAIK, I still have no desire to use gtk3 (obviously I'm not a gnome person)

I remember when lxde was considering rewriting into gtk3 going from gtk2 and they decided to go with qt
instead, since they were going to have to rewrite the whole thing either way.
I doubt they were the only ones unhappy with the pitiful upgrade path for gtk2.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mate desktop works well with gtk2, and i get much problem than i build mate with gtk3 support.

I didn't know how to resolve that problems, even if i want to know...

If gtk2 will done, i simply lose good and fast gnome2-like environment like mate. and many needed apps in my linux.
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