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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Removed by Neddy
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Proinsias wrote: | http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/
Gentoo based, CD sized, vim & much more.
| Quote: | | emerge app-admin/systemrescuecd-x86 sys-boot/systemrescuecd-x86-grub |
Installs the iso and pops an entry for it into grub which is nice. |
++ a handy grub menu for those boot issues gone wrong, plus a convinient image already downloaded if you need to update a usb stick
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Today's aftermath:
I have booted into my first Gentoo installation fifteen minutes ago. Regardless of genkernel all, there is no network except the loopback device, neither ethernet nor WiFi. Nothing in dmesg either. The shell works but it is probably pointless to try and fix this problem without starting all over...?
Since it was there during installation and I did install linux-firmware, I am sufficiently unimpressed by my first day into Gentoo. 
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Naib
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:07 am Post subject: |
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So the question is.... What did you miss or not enable/load in your install
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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: |
I plan to keep a low footprint: A window manager, a web browser, a text editor, two or three compilers. 
The web browser - assuming lynx is not really good enough - will probably be interesting to compile. Sigh. |
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Don't worry too much about firefox, libreoffice and a few other biggies.
They are available pre built. That does mean you don't get to choose how to build them if you opt for the pre built versions. |
I have nearly always used firefox-bin and thunderbird-bin. A few weeks ago I updated hardware on one eight year old system. That is, new CPU, motherboard, and memory. The hard drive is a high performance drive only a few years old. It booted right up without changes. I was ready to install an Intel ethernet card in case the onboard Realtek variant wasn't supported but I have the latest released kernel and it worked fine. A few days ago I built thunderbird from scratch. Before going to bed, I just typed "emerge thunderbird" and in the morning it was done. I sometimes run thunderbird and sometimes thunderbird-bin. I can't tell the difference. I've always run firefox-bin and if you think about it, so does everyone who runs Windows.
I'm an old foggy so I do build abiword and gnumeric which are available in the standard portage tree. Most everyone else runs openoffice or libreoffice. They are hard builds and also available in binary (-bin) packages. Some things like your compiler and libraries really benefit from building from source to be tuned and optimized for your CPU, others don't really matter. What does it matter how fast your word processor is when it spends most of its time waiting for you to hit a key, no matter how fast you type. And when you save or load a file, it spends most of its time waiting for the hard drive.
| pun_guin wrote: | | That's nice. How can I reuse binaries and how can I install/update a binary Firefox? |
"emerge firefox-bin". That's it.
Welcome aboard.
Last edited by Tony0945 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pun_guin
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | So the question is.... What did you miss or not enable/load in your install |
Obviously, the network drivers - which is actually weird because I can't install more than "all", right?
grep'ing through the available modules tells me that there is no ath10k although it was installed into /lib/firmware - that explains the missing WiFi. Not sure about the missing Realtek eth though.
So much about my experience, I guess.
edit:
Thank you, Tony - not sure if I'll ever reach this point...
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krinn
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | Since it was there during installation and I did install linux-firmware, I am sufficiently unimpressed by my first day into Gentoo. |
In gentoo you are the admin, if someone has let you think installing gentoo will magically raise your linux admin skill to an awesome level, i get why you aren't impress.
There's nearly nothing that couldn't be fix after you have install it and done something wrong, no need to reinstall, fix it, this is how you will learn and raise your admin skill, which would help you on any linux distro after even if you drop gentoo. |
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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | Today's aftermath:
I have booted into my first Gentoo installation fifteen minutes ago. Regardless of genkernel all, there is no network except the loopback device, neither ethernet nor WiFi. Nothing in dmesg either. The shell works but it is probably pointless to try and fix this problem without starting all over...?
Since it was there during installation and I did install linux-firmware, I am sufficiently unimpressed by my first day into Gentoo. |
That depends on whether you are installing OpenRC or Systemd and whether you are installing netifrc or network manager.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NetworkManager
I'm sure you used sysrescuecd's handy little script to set up it's ethernet connection. I think you can copy it to your install, but I never have and it's better to study those two wiki pages so that you understand what your doing.
In the beginning, it is a bit daunting to discover that along with many choices, you have to make the choices quickly. |
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pun_guin
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| krinn wrote: | | if someone has let you think installing gentoo will magically raise your linux admin skill to an awesome level, i get why you aren't impress. |
Not really - I don't do this for the credits.
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pun_guin
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I did some hunting because I can't sleep when I'm annoyed. As it turned out, ath10k was disabled in the kernel (it does not even have a menu option). Hmm.
It's there now...
Oh, this will be interesting.
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | I did some hunting because I can't sleep when I'm annoyed. As it turned out, ath10k was disabled in the kernel (it does not even have a menu option). Hmm.
It's there now...
Oh, this will be interesting. |
Keep in mind that there is more difficulty with this being your first time. The next time, you'll have more familiarity and remember the places you had difficulty and (hopefully) you'll be more intentional in making / verifying choices.
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1clue
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | Obviously, the network drivers - which is actually weird because I can't install more than "all", right?.... |
While this is unlikely to be the sole cause of your problems, it's an indicator.
You don't need "all" network drivers, and likely if you think about it you don't "want" all network drivers. You need the ones for the hardware installed on your box. Installing "all" means you've unnecessarily complicated your kernel, and in a way which is not at all helpful to you.
I spent the first 10 years or so of my Linux experience installing every option that looked like I might even want to play with one day. Never once did I get around to using more than the basics. Once in a blue moon I had to install a driver for new hardware I bought.
IMO people should use 'lspci' and 'lshw' and other similar tools to determine their hardware components, and then:
- Install that hardware.
- Remove everything else.
Likewise, you might consider enabling only the most common non-hardware kernel features. The ones you know you'll need. Getting an idea which of those features you actually need can be problematic so a little bloat in that respect is understandable.
I start by looking at my required software, the WIKI for each app, and collect USEs, support packages and kernel features required. That sort of snowballs into a bigger group of features, and some of the options you'll want to add to your global USE flags, others you'll want to keep specific to the apps that need it. |
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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:41 am Post subject: |
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The driver you probably want is r8169. Look for it when you run lsmod.
Also run "ifconfig -a" and post the results. Use code tags for readability.
| Code: | MSI ~ # ifconfig -a
eth0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet 192.168.0.104 netmask 255.255.0.0 broadcast 192.168.255.255
inet6 fe80::329c:23ff:fe1b:4251 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20<link>
ether 30:9c:23:1b:42:51 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 183878 bytes 139082099 (132.6 MiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 179697 bytes 84365279 (80.4 MiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 scopeid 0x10<host>
loop txqueuelen 1000 (Local Loopback)
RX packets 6298 bytes 759544 (741.7 KiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 6298 bytes 759544 (741.7 KiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
sit0: flags=128<NOARP> mtu 1480
sit txqueuelen 1000 (IPv6-in-IPv4)
RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
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A trick I used recently (my bootloader got blown out and I had to keep booting in by USB stick to fix it) is to put a file named chroot.sh in the root of the real root partition with contents:
| Code: | mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
mount -t proc proc /mnt/gentoo/proc
mount --rbind /sys /mnt/gentoo/sys
mount --rbind /tmp /mnt/gentoo/tmp
cp -L /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/gentoo/etc/resolv.conf
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Now, instead of having to keep flipping to the manual and doing a lot of typing, to chroot I ony have to do
| Code: | mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
sh /mnt/gentoo/chroot.sh
chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash |
It helps when your doing it half a dozen times or more. Don't make it executable to avoid accidents.
Old gentoo hands, please critique the script. it works for me but might not be robust.
So, pun_guin. That's your homework, run ifconfig and lsmod, read the two links, decide which manager you like, and come back and post the ifconfig results. I won't get ahead of this or NeddySeagoon will chide me for cooking you a fish dinner instead of teaching you to fish, which is a fault of mine. |
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Hu
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:01 am Post subject: |
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On principle, I would add set -e to chroot.sh so that it stops on first error, instead of pushing on and potentially making a bigger mess. Ideally, none of those steps should fail, but if one does, I'd prefer the failure to be instantly fatal.
I probably would not bind mount /tmp into the inner environment, but I can see the appeal if you know that the inner environment's /tmp will always be unusable when you need this script (such as if the inner environment uses a tmpfs for its /tmp and this script is only used when the inner environment fails to boot (and therefore to mount its tmpfs)). In that case, I might make chroot.sh provide its own tmpfs, rather than binding the outer environment's tmp, which may not be suitable. This is a situational decision. For some environments, your design is the best choice. For others, it may not be. |
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks, Hu. I cribbed the script from the handbook and forum posts, but the handbook has changed several times. The wiki has another mount instruction but says it's only needed for systemd. set -e is a good idea. I've added it. Originally i mounted /boot also but then I figured you can always do that easily within the chroot. |
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ct85711
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: |
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One thing I will point out, as it is a very common source of problems with gentoo, is regular maintenance. In short you need to regularly update/maintain your system; usually once a week is fine, but you could go maybe up to once a month. The key thing is, the longer duration between updates, the higher chance to have more issues. Stable branch typically doesn't change as fast, so around a monthly update is fine; but unstable, I'd recommend weekly or every other week.
Now, I would recommend you check over any actions portage wants to do. Just blindly accepting what portage wants to do, is a very easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. There has been some notable instances where portage wants to do the wrong thing (an issue with auto-unmask). |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | So the question is.... What did you miss or not enable/load in your install |
Obviously, the network drivers - which is actually weird because I can't install more than "all", right?
grep'ing through the available modules tells me that there is no ath10k although it was installed into /lib/firmware - that explains the missing WiFi. Not sure about the missing Realtek eth though.
So much about my experience, I guess.
edit:
Thank you, Tony - not sure if I'll ever reach this point... |
as I said, Gentoo humbles "experienced" Linux/UNIX users (on an aside,LFS becomes a piece of piss but damn tedious)
So a quick sitrep .. you booted off your drive, great! Fundamentally the kernel, init and @system are sane just no network
Did you go systemd or openrc?
Has the kernel loaded a driver for your interface (lspci -vvv will show)
Does the network interface acknowledge it (ifconfig -a)
If you are using openrc does your /etc/init.d/net.en#### exist and is named to reflect your actual interface name?
I had to change my net.en#### name last night as a bios update the exposed my ethernet as onboard eno1 rather than bus
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fungalnet
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Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 14
Location: Namimbia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: Very good advise |
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| krinn wrote: |
In gentoo you are the admin, if someone has let you think installing gentoo will magically raise your linux admin skill to an awesome level, i get why you aren't impress.
There's nearly nothing that couldn't be fix after you have install it and done something wrong, no need to reinstall, fix it, this is how you will learn and raise your admin skill, which would help you on any linux distro after even if you drop gentoo. |
Very good advise, and sometimes while I practice it I kick myself as it ends up taking 3 times as long to fix a mistake, once I realize what I did wrong, than to reinstall and start from scratch. At some point though this becomes so conscious that you know you are not going to learn anything and you know how much work you must do, and it is all about gratification and challenge.
It also helps keeping a few minimal installations on neighboring partitions to use to fix the neighbor, like in this case downloading the missing packages for networking from one installation and installing them with the installation that is net-isolated.
It is not magick that is for sure. Even the hw differences that sometimes can drive one nuts are not magick. It is all numbers, 0/I
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for late answer - I have a serious day job, that's why I need to spread my time with Gentoo over several evenings, so I Ctrl-C'ed the Gentoo installation last night on xorg-drivers and I'll continue tonight (CET here  ) if it lets me.
| pjp wrote: | | The next time, you'll have more familiarity and remember the places you had difficulty and (hopefully) you'll be more intentional in making / verifying choices. |
Probably. I guess there'll be a kernel update soon ... 
However, let me clarify again that I am not sure about whether to stick with Gentoo yet. While it amazes me that my initial thought of having a "less boring" system is perfectly fulfilled by Gentoo (to say the least...), I'll have to see how much maintenance it actually needs once it's set up and ready. If I need to spend more time keeping the screws together than to enjoy my occasional web surfing or developing stuff, I'll think about my options again. But that's a story for some other day, I guess. No X yet ...
| 1clue wrote: | | You don't need "all" network drivers, and likely if you think about it you don't "want" all network drivers. You need the ones for the hardware installed on your box. Installing "all" means you've unnecessarily complicated your kernel, and in a way which is not at all helpful to you. |
I already saw that a number of modules for hardware which I never had the urge to even buy was installed (and took a while to get there), like tuner/*. Is that more than just a waste of time and space?
| 1clue wrote: | | I spent the first 10 years or so of my Linux experience installing every option that looked like I might even want to play with one day. |
So did I, that's why I considered "all" a good option...? The Handbook suggests that Gentoo beginners might even want that.
| 1clue wrote: | | Likewise, you might consider enabling only the most common non-hardware kernel features. The ones you know you'll need. |
Without regular Linux experience, the sheer amount of available kernel features is overwhelming. I know what's loaded, but I don't know what's needed - or is this identical?
About USE flags: I'll know the totals when my desktop is ready, I guess. Maybe there are applications on the way which I don't remember yet.
| Tony0945 wrote: | | The driver you probably want is r8169. Look for it when you run lsmod. |
You mean, for Ethernet? ifconfig -a displays it now (must have been the additional firmware...). I can post my output when I'm back home if it's still relevant.
| Tony0945 wrote: | | A trick I used recently (my bootloader got blown out and I had to keep booting in by USB stick to fix it) is to put a file named chroot.sh in the root of the real root partition (...) |
Thank you for the idea.
re:network, since I (virtually) never use the ethernet connector whatsoever, my current setup (just like the previous Void setup) has wpa_cli as the relevant "manager" for me. But I'll think about this tonight again, maybe I can find a reason.
| ct85711 wrote: | | One thing I will point out, as it is a very common source of problems with gentoo, is regular maintenance. In short you need to regularly update/maintain your system; usually once a week is fine, but you could go maybe up to once a month. |
Weekly updates are OK for me - I'll keep in mind to remember them. (Given that this Gentoo will survive a week on my machine...)
| ct85711 wrote: | | Just blindly accepting what portage wants to do, is a very easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. |
There are a lot of things that can shoot me in the foot on Gentoo, it seems ...
| Naib wrote: | | Did you go systemd or openrc? |
OpenRC (I wouldn't even have considered Gentoo if I was into systemd).
| Naib wrote: | Has the kernel loaded a driver for your interface (lspci -vvv will show)
Does the network interface acknowledge it (ifconfig -a) |
Now they have.
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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pun_guin,
While the portage repository is updated every 30 minutes, you don't need to update your Gentoo that often. :)
With a testing install, weekly to monthly is adequate. If you let it go three months, you and your CPU will both have some work to do.
With a stable install, every three months is fine.
Gentoo has a working aim that its possible to update a year old install.
I think that the oldest I've helped with here has been 5 or 6 years old. That took about 6 weeks elapsed time and was definitely an educational experience, for me anyway.
Do read your news items and act on them if you need to.
Don't omit rebuilding things in @preserved-rebuild and removing orphaned packages.
Removing orphaned packages ... here be dragons if you are careless but it shouldn't cause extra work, just give you a fright occasionally, which will keep you on your toes.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Hey, NeddySeagoon,
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | With a stable install, every three months is fine. |
"stable" or "testing" are decided by the chosen profiles, right? If so, I'm on stable.
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | Gentoo has a working aim that its possible to update a year old install. |
That's good - other "rolling" systems don't do that. But I rarely let my computers unwatched for more than two weeks.
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | Do read your news items and act on them if you need to. |
That vaguely reminds me of FreeBSD's "UPDATING". I'll cry for help if needed.
Thank you.
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: |
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pun_guin,
You get stable by default. You have to ask for testing with an entry in make.conf.
News items warn you of changes you need to know about and what you must do.
Just occasionally, if you miss one, your system won't boot next time but they are rarely that bad.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I'll make sure to not set that entry ever. 
-- I had to read the existing news items so emerge would stop annoying me with that. Gladly, since this is a fresh installation, there's not that much that I'll have to change yet.
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pun_guin
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Here's ifconfig:
| Code: | enp1s0: flags=4098<BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
ether fc:45:96:a8:5b:51 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING> mtu 65536
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 255.0.0.0
inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 scopeid 0x10<host>
loop txqueuelen 1 (Lokale Schleife)
RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
wlp2s0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
inet6 fe80::3ea0:67ff:feae:b00b prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20<link>
ether 3c:a0:67:ae:b0:0b txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 1632 bytes 440389 (430.0 KiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 17 bytes 1812 (1.7 KiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
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Will report back with today's state of things - currently compiling.
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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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From https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Eudev:
| Quote: | Keep classic 'eth0' naming
Network device names eth0, wlan0, etc. as provided by the kernel could be changed on boot (see dmesg) by the /lib/udev/rules.d/80-net-name-slot.rules udev rule.
To keep the classic naming this rule can be overwritten with an equally named empty file in the /etc/udev/rules.d directory:
root #touch /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-name-slot.rules
Alternatively add net.ifnames=0 to the kernel command line, change the default policy or create a custom one. |
You can either use one of those methods to change enp1s0 back to eth0
OR
Follow the handbook instructions for bringing up your ethernet substituting enp1s0 for eth0 everywhere in the instructions.
This re-naming might be hindering the wireless also. I don't have wireless so I'm not sure of that.
But that wlp2s0 looks like a udev rename rather than a kernel name.
I vote for door number one, but I'm so conservative as to be reactionary. |
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pun_guin
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. I thought that was the usual Linux naming, Void had the same adapter names and I had no obvious issues there. But if the Handbook says so, I might indeed want to read about this topic. I'll come back to this later though.
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