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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Dow Jones hit by worst fall since 2008 Reply with quote

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The Dow Jones Industrial Average has closed down by 1,175 points in the biggest one day fall since the financial crisis.

The leading US stock market index closed down 4.6% at 24,345.75.

It is the worst drop in points since September 2008 when a plan to rescue the US banking industry was rejected.

The decline extended losses on Friday, when strong wage growth data raised the prospect of accelerated interest rate rises.

Monday's sell-off surpassed a 777.68 points drop on the Dow Jones on 29 September 2008 when Congress rebuffed a $700bn bank bailout plan following the collapse of US investment bank Lehman Brothers earlier that month.

The decline in the Dow was closely followed by the wider S&P 500 stock index, down 3.8% and the technology-heavy Nasdaq, down 3.7%.

8O

Bloody Obama! If it wasn't for him being president then everything would be.... oh........
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it was Obama's bubble. And Trump made the most serious mistake by taking the ownership of it. All bubbles burst, eventually.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could get interesting if this is the main pop and if the contagion spreads... Italian elections around the corner and they are pissed
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Yes it was Obama's bubble. And Trump made the most serious mistake by taking the ownership of it. All bubbles burst, eventually.
The foundation of the bubble is Ben Bernanke's with some encouragement from Obama. In the end it was that pos Bernanke that foisted the lie of the decade in the "Too Big to Fail" fairy tale. Wall Street started off the Trump administration with already artificial levels, due to a decade of interest free handouts from the Fed. The huge growth since is just piling on to those inflated levels.

I've been waiting for this bubble to burst before investing in stocks. We'll see what the next few days bring.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the functional purpose of the stock market. So when it comes down crashing in failure, I really don't care.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Yes it was Obama's bubble. And Trump made the most serious mistake by taking the ownership of it. All bubbles burst, eventually.
No, Obama fixed the mess that Bush left and left the economy in the best state it had been in for something like 3 decades. Of course someone came in and ruined it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4% drop in the DOW, I see this as a correction. Good time to sell off a bit, as many did.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Yes it was Obama's bubble. And Trump made the most serious mistake by taking the ownership of it. All bubbles burst, eventually.
No, Obama fixed the mess that Bush left and left the economy in the best state it had been in for something like 3 decades. Of course someone came in and ruined it.
TDS

I think successful treatment depends on inpatient care.


Muso wrote:
4% drop in the DOW, I see this as a correction. Good time to sell off a bit, as many did.
I'm curious about the sudden onset of inflation panic. Really? Now? Not last year or any of the years during Obama's administration, or Bush's. Now?

Fortunately I'm mostly too broke to have any stocks.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
. . . Fortunately I'm mostly too broke to have any stocks.


You are not alone.

I'm tempted to do a #MeToo here, but you know, that's supposedly something entirely different. So I won't.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
4% drop in the DOW, I see this as a correction. Good time to sell off a bit, as many did.
Gonna be a nice time to buy after the correction. No doubt that the economy is going to grow. The real economy of Main Street; not Obama's trillion dollars to his money Masters on Wall Street. Consumer buying is over 70% of the economy.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Muso wrote:
4% drop in the DOW, I see this as a correction. Good time to sell off a bit, as many did.
Gonna be a nice time to buy after the correction. No doubt that the economy is going to grow. The real economy of Main Street; not Obama's trillion dollars to his money Masters on Wall Street. Consumer buying is over 70% of the economy.


++

2018/2019 will be an interesting time with investments. There should be some nice opportunities and new companies coming to the markets.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just going to wait a little longer to open my 401K.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Closed today up +567
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Closed today up +567
Not only that, but the drop wasn't particularly noteworthy (except maybe to TDSers and their Fake News).

Percentage Loss Is Not Historic
Quote:
But in percentage terms — and that's how you should look at it — the Dow had a very bad day, but hardly historic.

[...]

The Dow's 4.6% loss on Monday was the worst since August 2011. But it didn't even crack the top-20 of all-time losses. It was just the 25th worst loss since 1960.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's noteworthy for watching the anti-Trump loons go guano, but that's about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Old School wrote:
Muso wrote:
4% drop in the DOW, I see this as a correction. Good time to sell off a bit, as many did.
Gonna be a nice time to buy after the correction. No doubt that the economy is going to grow. The real economy of Main Street; not Obama's trillion dollars to his money Masters on Wall Street. Consumer buying is over 70% of the economy.


++

2018/2019 will be an interesting time with investments. There should be some nice opportunities and new companies coming to the markets.


What, exactly, has changed since Obama/Bush? Trump is spending, I think in the same words you described Obama, as a crack whore with a credit card, although now she is also high. Deficit is topping 1 trillion. Interest rates are still rock bottom but climbing fast. Long term yields on treasuries are hitting 2.8 and are expected to crack 3%.

Interesting that you all stopped listening to Ron Paul when Trump got elected. Austrian economics, nobel prize laureate Hayek, a solid politician like Paul were lauded, but then somehow a reality TV star turned you all into Keynesians.

The mind boggles.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
2018/2019 will be an interesting time with investments. There should be some nice opportunities and new companies coming to the markets.


What, exactly, has changed since Obama/Bush?


Regulations & the corporate tax rate.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
The mind boggles.
Does it boggle at your seeming expectation that a magic wand be waved to solve decades of inertia? I'm not sure what you think could have addressed the issue in a year, if anything, or what point you were trying to make. The only way to reduce the debt is to decimate spending. Congress will never pass that because they want to be reelected, and certain types of voter (most) will never voluntarily give up "free" stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Interesting that you all stopped listening to Ron Paul when Trump got elected. Austrian economics, nobel prize laureate Hayek, a solid politician like Paul were lauded, but then somehow a reality TV star turned you all into Keynesians.

The mind boggles.

We have not stopped listening to Ron Paul. While Trump is not perfect, at least he does not subscribe to the crony capitalism of past Democrats, and the overt socialism of the new breed of American liberals. As Muso stated, Trump is slashing economy killing regulations, as well as making it possible for more companies to make products in the US again. If Crooked Hillary had been elected, besides being in a world war, the US economy would still be at the sluggish pace of Obananomics. The only way that our welfare state can continue is by creating money out of thin air.

It's the welfare state, stupid.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
Interesting that you all stopped listening to Ron Paul when Trump got elected. Austrian economics, nobel prize laureate Hayek, a solid politician like Paul were lauded, but then somehow a reality TV star turned you all into Keynesians.

The mind boggles.

We have not stopped listening to Ron Paul. While Trump is not perfect, at least he does not subscribe to the crony capitalism of past Democrats, and the overt socialism of the new breed of American liberals. As Muso stated, Trump is slashing economy killing regulations, as well as making it possible for more companies to make products in the US again. If Crooked Hillary had been elected, besides being in a world war, the US economy would still be at the sluggish pace of Obananomics. The only way that our welfare state can continue is by creating money out of thin air.


He is doing precisely what the democrats do, but the republican version. Slashing taxes is easy. It's about as easy as promising people Obama phones. But balancing the budget is very hard. Trump is on the path to making Obama look like Goldwater.

If you think he is not in the pockets of business, then it's sheer stupidity what he is spending on the military. Obama, Bush, and Clinton all had the excuse of being in the pocket of defence companies.

As to cutting taxes (he has indeed done a good job of that) and regulation (his record here is overblown), it's not going to make any difference if the deficit keeps rising and interest rates sky rocket.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Does it boggle at your seeming expectation that a magic wand be waved to solve decades of inertia? I'm not sure what you think could have addressed the issue in a year, if anything, or what point you were trying to make. The only way to reduce the debt is to decimate spending. Congress will never pass that because they want to be reelected, and certain types of voter (most) will never voluntarily give up "free" stuff.


No, I don't expect him to wave a wand.

But he isn't even trying. He would have a lot of allies (some republican) if he decided to reduce military spending. But he didn't.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
Interesting that you all stopped listening to Ron Paul when Trump got elected. Austrian economics, nobel prize laureate Hayek, a solid politician like Paul were lauded, but then somehow a reality TV star turned you all into Keynesians.

The mind boggles.

We have not stopped listening to Ron Paul. While Trump is not perfect, at least he does not subscribe to the crony capitalism of past Democrats, and the overt socialism of the new breed of American liberals. As Muso stated, Trump is slashing economy killing regulations, as well as making it possible for more companies to make products in the US again. If Crooked Hillary had been elected, besides being in a world war, the US economy would still be at the sluggish pace of Obananomics. The only way that our welfare state can continue is by creating money out of thin air.


He is doing precisely what the democrats do, but the republican version. Slashing taxes is easy. It's about as easy as promising people Obama phones. But balancing the budget is very hard. Trump is on the path to making Obama look like Goldwater.

If you think he is not in the pockets of business, then it's sheer stupidity what he is spending on the military. Obama, Bush, and Clinton all had the excuse of being in the pocket of defence companies.

As to cutting taxes (he has indeed done a good job of that) and regulation (his record here is overblown), it's not going to make any difference if the deficit keeps rising and interest rates sky rocket.


As I said above, It is the welfare state. If the Feds would just follow the Constitution, we would not be talking about a huge deficit.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
As I said above, It is the welfare state. If the Feds would just follow the Constitution, we would not be talking about a huge deficit.


while the welfare state is a problem, it's not really the biggest problem. If you spend half of what you do on the millitary, you will still have hte best military.

that would take a chunk out of the budget.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
As I said above, It is the welfare state. If the Feds would just follow the Constitution, we would not be talking about a huge deficit.


while the welfare state is a problem, it's not really the biggest problem. If you spend half of what you do on the millitary, you will still have hte best military.

that would take a chunk out of the budget.


National defense is mandated by the Constitution, the welfare state is not.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
As I said above, It is the welfare state. If the Feds would just follow the Constitution, we would not be talking about a huge deficit.


while the welfare state is a problem, it's not really the biggest problem. If you spend half of what you do on the millitary, you will still have hte best military.

that would take a chunk out of the budget.
No, it is the biggest problem. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid eat most of the budget. Military spending is less than 20% of the budget, while Social Security and the welfare state add up to close to 60% of the budget.

Src

We do spend too much on the military.
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