spectre and meltdown questions

[rogge]

[saellaven]

[Ionen]

^ alternatively when building yourself you can also embed command line options in the kernel that will work regardless of how you boot, like:

[Atha]

Special Register Buffer Data Sampling (SRBDS), CVE-2020-0543, also known as "Crosstalk".

[Ant P.]

[Atha]

[Tony0945]

I'm sure Intel/AMD's response would be something like "These older CPU's are no longer in production. For the greatest protection buy a current production CPU."
These is analogous to Microsoft "These older OS's, XP & window 7 are no longer for sale. For the greatest protection purchase Windows 10."

At least MSFT gives a discount to current holders of Windows licenses. Intel and AMD do not.

I do see your point. At least automakers don't say "Your ten year-old-car is vulnerable to explosion in a rear end collision. For the greatest protection purchase a new {insert name} from your authorized dealer." But then there is a law requiring automobile recalls. No such law for CPU's.

[Atha]

The fact that Intel and AMD provided microcode/ucode updates for CPU around 8 years old shows that it is important. And for the systems it is not as simple as replacing the CPU, so you'd have to also replace at least the mainboard and the DIMMs, possibly more. For embedded systems and laptops it is (to 99.99%) impossible.

Most people will either leave it and live with the vulnerabilities, or they will [need|have|want] to buy a new system. But, if I personally were to buy a new system, I would go for AMD. Intel has made a bad reputation of itself lately, but it is really a decade ago (or more) when Intel misbehaved. It is only now that we see the consequences.

While I can understand that Intel and AMD abondoned some older architectures from before 2010, I think it would have been wise to at least try to provide microcode updates for at least starting from the Core i series (Intel) and the K10 (AMD) onward. And while this may be inacceptable for some companies, due to the performance impact, security may well be a top priority for others. Not to mention private customers.

So I ask you: if you had a 2012 Intel CPU running, and you had planned to keep it running because it's absolutely sufficient for your needs, and security IS a thing for you: What would you buy to replace it with? Intel or AMD?

Not only would it be great to have laws for continued support in such a case, it is IMHO also in the utter most interest of Intel – to show their customers that they can rely on the company and that it is a good idea to buy an Intel processor. Even now that AMD is clearly winning the race with its Ryzen and Threadripper – and AMD is winning without the tricks that Intel apparently used over a decade ago!
_________________
Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too. – Voltaire

[NeddySeagoon]

Atha,

You would replace it with an arm or arm64 CPU that did not offer out of order or speculative execution.
Arm is not immune to these thing either but they are less affected than x86.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[Atha]

Good point. I would use ARM, but I like to keep my legacy software running as well, and this happens to be DOS games (DOSBox) and Windows games (dual boot with Windows 10). I assume that some companies may have legacy installations (not games!) as well...

But thinking about it: is there an ARM64 laptop, as performant as a Ryzen laptop, with an open architecture (like UEFI or Open Firmware), with a good graphics card, good Linux support and standard connections (NVMe-PCIe, DDR4-DIMMs etc.), and all that at a price comparable to a standard laptop with FullHD display? (A friend just bought a new one after the old laptop died, it did cost around 600$...)

Because last I checked, stuff like the Librem was not having the specs and was quite expensive, even though I do find the concept intriguing. But the Librem is an Intel x86 system again...

Chromebooks? Aren't they locked in some way (firmware) into ChromeOS?
_________________
Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too. – Voltaire

[NeddySeagoon]

Atha,

My Acer R13 Chromebook runs arm64 Gentoo.
There is a special dance to get into developer mode and enable non ChromeOS booting but it is documented and you only do it once.

Arm hardware supplied with Windows has secure boot permanently enabled.
That makes booting anything else much harder, so if you want to play with Gentoo on arm64, don't start there.

Is there a Intel/Ryzen laptop that does over 12 hours on a battery charge?
Arm and x86 laptops aim at different use cases.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

[Atha]

True. I guess I could do with a Chromebook, and I regularly look into it, but there are two things that keep me away:

• Upgradeability. Most Chromebooks have something like 64 GB eMMC, which means it cannot be upgraded. I don't know if there are DIMM slots or if the RAM is also soldered. I say this because I do upgrade RAM and SSDs in my laptops when I find it necessary instead of purchasing a new laptop. Also I have lots and lots of files on my laptop for offline use, I don't use the cloud. Anything less then 512 GB is a nightmare for me, I normally go with 1 (at least) or 2 TB SSDs.
  
• A non-reflective display. Most Chromebooks continue to have only glare displays. I hate this and will only buy a laptop with a non-glare display.

For a laptop-like Chromebook, PCIe-NVMe and DIMM slots on the mainboard, non-glare display, USB-3 and -C connectors as well as an Ethernet RJ-45 connector... I would buy it in an instant if the price isn't too high! I would even sacrafice my "legacy software" for such an ARM64 laptop...

I don't think that manufacturers think that there is a market for such a device. And I frankly don't know. I guess I'm not mainstream. Or too much mainstream, considering that there are plenty of x86 laptops with exactly those specs...
_________________
Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too. – Voltaire

[Ant P.]

[Anon-E-moose]

I don't use any cmd line overrides, just the normal config switches.

[Tony0945]

Nor I. Grub legacy on Phenom II, reFind on Ryzen & Bulldozer

Phenom II

[Mgiese]

as of now I dont use intel anymore, just upgraded to a AMD Ryzen 7 3700X and I must say I am really impressed, with kernel 5.7.2 all vulnerabilities are fixed without taking any extra care :

[Tony0945]