Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
I am about to give Gentoo up
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Portage & Programming
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ct85711
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1401

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know for me, I've had news turned off in the features for a long time. A lot of it is that for me usage, having portage constantly referencing the news was a pointless, when it was over old topics that I already addressed. The way I see it is that, considering I read up on the forums a couple times a day while running unstable branch, I generally find out of any potential issues way before the news is ever written on the topics I am concerned about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 5577
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, switching off news completely, more so, complaining about it, really is a dumb thing to do. Simply get over it and run eselect news read new.

Aiken wrote:
After reading the latest news item I have 14 systems to do a full rebuild on. A mix of servers, desktops and laptops. Something I am not looking forward to.

If I had 14 systems to maintain then there would already be one or two binhosts doing the work for all others. Needless to say it is perfectly within your rights not to do the rebuild, or time it with your next gcc upgrade.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 183
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Wow, switching off news completely, more so, complaining about it, really is a dumb thing to do. Simply get over it and run eselect news read new.

Aiken wrote:
After reading the latest news item I have 14 systems to do a full rebuild on. A mix of servers, desktops and laptops. Something I am not looking forward to.

If I had 14 systems to maintain then there would already be one or two binhosts doing the work for all others. Needless to say it is perfectly within your rights not to do the rebuild, or time it with your next gcc upgrade.


From the post where you quoted me I did mention having a build server. Does not help that gentoo binary installs are slow in comparison to binary distros. Several of the machines affected will be 3 hours each for the binary reinstall. I can have a working linux mint on one of those machines in just under 10 minutes.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spargeltarzan
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understand you don't want the same news on 14 machines, just be careful on which machines you want disable it, because the news might only be shown when the relevant package is installed. Also ensure, you don't forget applying the rules in the news on machines without it...

In these 3 hours, was there also some local compilation of packages or only binary install from the host?

For me 3 hours for a full gcc upgrade & profile switch with PIE enabled is I believe not much compared to my ~15hours emerge -e. This work is not done very often. But I am planning to setup a binhost now too :). Also you keep your perfect suited system, after 10 min Linux Mint install you have...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SapphireCamel
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Dec 2017
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am currently rebuilding my system because of the PIE announcement (since yesterday... I have an older AMD APU, portage niceness level keeps the computer perfectly responsive for browsing and stuff tho, it's all a question of [enough] RAM) and I thought I'd drop by to the forums to see what the gentoo community has been up to. I've been a user of the gentoo distro for about 13, maybe 14 years and it's a bit funny to me that right on the first page of one of the subforums I find a long thread about how gentoo is dying. People already used to say that ten years ago with exactly the same arguments. Besides eselect news read and some lurking on /r/linux to hear about new stuff, I don't really tend to interact with gnu/linux communities.

I made an account just to respond to this topic because I wanted to inject my opinion about some things said here: Gentoo gives you a lot of power, which also means you get a lot of power to break your own system in sometimes quite insidious ways. I disagree with the statement that has been made in this thread that the user doesn't/shouldn't need to know/care about certain things and that they are the gentoo's people responsibility. While this is in general the modern approach to computing, it's also the reason things are such a mess in IT in general nowadays IMHO. If you want to have the power to make the decisions, you also have to take the responsibility for these decisions. One of these decisions is to install Gentoo in the first place.

I think many of us are here because we like to have a choice. Sadly in order to make good, informed choices, you need to have the knowledge to make them. It's like that everywhere in life. Wanting to make all the choices while having some 3rd party entity resolve the consequences bad ones cause is like wanting to have the cake, and eat it too. You simply can't have both. If you do not want to have that kind of responsibility and just want things to work in a frame where even the bad choices you could make don't really matter, you need something like Ubuntu or Win10, which of course will take (will have to, really) some of the choices away from you in order so that you can't screw up. It really is that simple. Honestly, personally I have to say this attitude of "I want to make the decisions but I also don't want to be responsible if they blow up in my face/don't want to be able to make decisions that do nothing but good for me" really irritate me, it seems to be really prevalent these days.

I know, I probably come off as an elitist know-it-all when I say that I never really had the problems some of the people here mentioned, probably because I knew what I was doing. Some good advice was already given, a thing I've seen break a lot of gentoo systems over the years is the blanket unmasking of packages. Never do this if you aren't 100% sure what you are doing. If you really need something that's not stable, unmask an exact version number and the exact version numbers of libraries that package might depend on. That alone basically already solves almost all of the problems with upgrading and having testing packages I've ever seen. I'm gonna go ahead and say that I assume that OPs installation probably was a mess in that regard, would love to see that package.keywords file.

I did experience a few times where people upstream from me (the administrator of my own system) screwed up but with gentoo, they were honestly far and few in-between and never really as catastrophic as with some other software I've used in the past. The Gentoo maintainers seem to know what they are doing. I'm not an IT specialist. I don't even work in IT. I never had an IT education. Hell, if you have to know, I'm an accountant. Everything I know about computers I thought myself. I installed Gentoo back in the day because I was sick and tired of Microsoft taking choice away from me (and that stuff back then was quaint in comparison to the shit they do now, let me tell you) and Gentoo Linux was advertised to me as having the most choice. I never used a gnu/linux distro before the day I sat down with the Gentoo installation handbook. I screwed up quite a bit (still do sometimes) but I also learned a lot. If I can learn, you can learn too.

I also have to disagree with the idea of gentoo getting more mainstream appeal by basically making it more idiot-proof. That's really the last thing I'd want gentoo to get, more mainstream appeal. That almost never turns out to be a good thing for anything I've ever used. I don't want the average Joe user to want to use gentoo, because that would mean that gentoo probably changed enough that I wouldn't want to bother with it anymore. The average users wishes and desires and mine are just too different, and I can imagine this is true for many gentoo users. More mainstream is not a good thing here.

I can't see gentoo dying as long as security updates are added in a timely manner and it seems that they are. gnu/linux userland takes some questionable directions (systemd...) lately but I hope that insanity will pass over. If not, there's always the *BSDs. Until then, I will keep using Gentoo.

My two cents to this discussion and the thousands of similar discussions like that in the gentoo community. 600 of 901 packages complete. Almost there. :D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gorg86
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip, you'll be back to using Gentoo when apt dist-upgrade puts out the first non fixable error. I'd say that would be in 2 years max 8)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 183
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spargeltarzan wrote:
Understand you don't want the same news on 14 machines, just be careful on which machines you want disable it, because the news might only be shown when the relevant package is installed. Also ensure, you don't forget applying the rules in the news on machines without it...

In these 3 hours, was there also some local compilation of packages or only binary install from the host?

For me 3 hours for a full gcc upgrade & profile switch with PIE enabled is I believe not much compared to my ~15hours emerge -e. This work is not done very often. But I am planning to setup a binhost now too :). Also you keep your perfect suited system, after 10 min Linux Mint install you have...


The 10 minute mint install was good enough I could have put it on that persons desk, rsync their home directory across and it would have been good to go.

As for a not quite full gentoo binary install for what is used

Code:

real   164m25.459s
user   128m47.728s
sys   24m49.370s


That time plus another 8 minutes for a few packages that were not already installed for 2 hours 52 minutes to do a gentoo binary install. There are times I regret gentoo on this many machines. My experience has always been a gentoo binary install is slower than a normal binary distro.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2042

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aiken wrote:
Spargeltarzan wrote:
Understand you don't want the same news on 14 machines, just be careful on which machines you want disable it, because the news might only be shown when the relevant package is installed. Also ensure, you don't forget applying the rules in the news on machines without it...

In these 3 hours, was there also some local compilation of packages or only binary install from the host?

For me 3 hours for a full gcc upgrade & profile switch with PIE enabled is I believe not much compared to my ~15hours emerge -e. This work is not done very often. But I am planning to setup a binhost now too :). Also you keep your perfect suited system, after 10 min Linux Mint install you have...


The 10 minute mint install was good enough I could have put it on that persons desk, rsync their home directory across and it would have been good to go.

As for a not quite full gentoo binary install for what is used

Code:

real   164m25.459s
user   128m47.728s
sys   24m49.370s


That time plus another 8 minutes for a few packages that were not already installed for 2 hours 52 minutes to do a gentoo binary install. There are times I regret gentoo on this many machines. My experience has always been a gentoo binary install is slower than a normal binary distro.


Then go use mint.

If minimal maintenance time is your priority then you should never have installed a source-based distro in the first place. When I have that priority then I install *buntu of some flavor. Generic one-size-fits-all builds is not Gentoo's strong point. You could literally pick almost anything else and be happier if you don't care how the software was built.

Sorry to sound so cranky on this thread, but there are tons of distros that aim at low maintenance time and easy maintenance for non-experts. There's very few source-based distros that let you tailor things the way Gentoo does. If your aim is to make Gentoo more like the plethora of generic crap out there then please go play on somebody else's lawn.

I'm all for improving Gentoo, but I'm in no way for sacrificing build options in order to get that improvement.

There are times I need a generic build, and in those cases I go grab a generic build. I have lots of *buntu boxes out there. I only need a few Gentoo builds, but I'm more than happy to put in the time to get them going and keep them going.

I just did the profile switch on my 8-core atom box, followed by the perl upgrade. I followed the instructions in the eselect news article, rebooted and then did the perl upgrade via my normal portage update commands. Everything still works. It was a long haul for my atom box (12+ hours) but straightforward and error-free. And AFAICT my box works fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saboya
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
Then go use mint.

If minimal maintenance time is your priority then you should never have installed a source-based distro in the first place. When I have that priority then I install *buntu of some flavor. Generic one-size-fits-all builds is not Gentoo's strong point. You could literally pick almost anything else and be happier if you don't care how the software was built.

This 100%. I really can't wrap my mind around people that want to compare Gentoo to Ubuntu or any other binary distro. They are aimed towards completely different people. Gentoo isn't supposed to be a better Ubuntu/Mint/Fedore/whatever. This is where open source shines: You can tailor it to do whatever you want. Gentoo devs chose to do a customizable source-based distro. If you don't want that, it's fine, but don't say it's a bad distro because it doesn't fit your needs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 183
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:

If minimal maintenance time is your priority then you should never have installed a source-based distro in the first place. When I have that priority then I install *buntu of some flavor. Generic one-size-fits-all builds is not Gentoo's strong point. You could literally pick almost anything else and be happier if you don't care how the software was built.

Sorry to sound so cranky on this thread, but there are tons of distros that aim at low maintenance time and easy maintenance for non-experts. There's very few source-based distros that let you tailor things the way Gentoo does. If your aim is to make Gentoo more like the plethora of generic crap out there then please go play on somebody else's lawn.

I'm all for improving Gentoo, but I'm in no way for sacrificing build options in order to get that improvement.


I would have thought by now using a gentoo build server to make binary packages for slower machines was common knowledge. The image for my build server is 6 years old and this was not a new idea them. None of what I said complained about source based distro or wanting options removed. The mint bit was a comparison on how slow gentoo binary packages (ie no compiling involved) are compared to other distro.

When you are running a group of machines with similar or the same hardware and a SOE then a gentoo build server then a "Generic one-size-fits-all" build works very nicely with build once then deploy the binaries. Depending on whether I get to do them in parallel or sequential I am looking at 1 to 2 days of binary installs after all compiling has finished. I expect that for a source install. I do not expect that for a binary install.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helecho
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Dec 2016
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could try to form a group (composed by unsatisfied users) and create common goals. The main goal would be to identify and solve significant problems.
For example, we could create relevant opinion surveys that correlate with major problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2042

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aiken wrote:
1clue wrote:

If minimal maintenance time is your priority then you should never have installed a source-based distro in the first place. When I have that priority then I install *buntu of some flavor. Generic one-size-fits-all builds is not Gentoo's strong point. You could literally pick almost anything else and be happier if you don't care how the software was built.

Sorry to sound so cranky on this thread, but there are tons of distros that aim at low maintenance time and easy maintenance for non-experts. There's very few source-based distros that let you tailor things the way Gentoo does. If your aim is to make Gentoo more like the plethora of generic crap out there then please go play on somebody else's lawn.

I'm all for improving Gentoo, but I'm in no way for sacrificing build options in order to get that improvement.


I would have thought by now using a gentoo build server to make binary packages for slower machines was common knowledge. The image for my build server is 6 years old and this was not a new idea them. None of what I said complained about source based distro or wanting options removed. The mint bit was a comparison on how slow gentoo binary packages (ie no compiling involved) are compared to other distro.

When you are running a group of machines with similar or the same hardware and a SOE then a gentoo build server then a "Generic one-size-fits-all" build works very nicely with build once then deploy the binaries. Depending on whether I get to do them in parallel or sequential I am looking at 1 to 2 days of binary installs after all compiling has finished. I expect that for a source install. I do not expect that for a binary install.


Maybe I have some sort of hair trigger about this? Every time somebody says "I can install <some flavor of Debian> in 10 minutes, why does this take so long in Gentoo?" I go off the rails. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

I know about build servers. I have used one, but at the moment my Gentoo installs have very little common ground.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helecho
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 26 Dec 2016
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may be interested by the the Gentoo Reference System project. Personally, I have not yet exploited this project because of my current potential (the documentation gives me a headache).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Waterdevil
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tholin -> my thumb's up
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,AsrockZ97,i7,MEM:32G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChan,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 4534

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
Maybe I have some sort of hair trigger about this? Every time somebody says "I can install <some flavor of Debian> in 10 minutes, why does this take so long in Gentoo?" I go off the rails. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

It's an understandable reaction to such trolling. You're here spending your free time helping others while fending off an infinite supply of completely irrational/entitled people like this who simultaneously demand, reject and insult your efforts. After a while it gets tiresome.
_________________
*.ebuild // /etc/service/*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2042

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
1clue wrote:
Maybe I have some sort of hair trigger about this? Every time somebody says "I can install <some flavor of Debian> in 10 minutes, why does this take so long in Gentoo?" I go off the rails. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

It's an understandable reaction to such trolling. You're here spending your free time helping others while fending off an infinite supply of completely irrational/entitled people like this who simultaneously demand, reject and insult your efforts. After a while it gets tiresome.


Not sure if I'd say that. It's easy to misunderstand tone and intent on a forum. That said, what I thought was that the author of the comment thought Gentoo should be as fast and easy as Arch. Given the loss of control and choice that would require, I disagree in the strongest possible terms.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaglover
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 5967
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every now and then you can see a rant about Linux in some Linux forum. How bad Linux is and how user-unfriendly. This is users failure which they are unable to cope with, so they go out and search for support to their decision to abandon Linux, maybe hoping also for compassion.
There is no sensible reason to go ranting about something you do not use. It is sour grapes, unwillingness to admit they have failed.
_________________
Please learn how to denote units correctly!

Political Correctness is all about replacing imaginary injustice with real injustice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saboya
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Every now and then you can see a rant about Linux in some Linux forum. How bad Linux is and how user-unfriendly. This is users failure which they are unable to cope with, so they go out and search for support to their decision to abandon Linux, maybe hoping also for compassion.
There is no sensible reason to go ranting about something you do not use. It is sour grapes, unwillingness to admit they have failed.

I don't think it's the same thing at all. I think it's pretty clear how Windows and OS X are much more user-friendly and polished than Linux. And yes, I do believe some flavor of Linux, like Ubuntu, does aim to compete with those options, and it's a fair comparison.

However, the discussion here is about Gentoo and it's perceived increase in maintenance cost and complexity, and how does that compare to other Linux distros, which, in my view, have a completely different proposition, including (but not limited to), Ubuntu, for example.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaglover
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 5967
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think it's pretty clear how Windows and OS X are much more user-friendly and polished than Linux.

Oranges to apples. Linux has no GUI, while macOS and Windows do. (There are several GUI environments that run on Linux, but they also run on non-Linux platforms. Thus, they cannot be called Linux.)
This "complexity of maintenance of Gentoo". How comes I haven't noticed it? After running Gentoo since 2004 I have no clue what some users mean by increased complexity. It takes virtually no user time to upgrade, I'd say less than a minute, unless something comes up, which can happen when running ~arch.
Back to this topic. Our OP states he is leaving Gentoo. Good for him, I assume, so why rant about it?
_________________
Please learn how to denote units correctly!

Political Correctness is all about replacing imaginary injustice with real injustice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saboya
Guru
Guru


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
This "complexity of maintenance of Gentoo". How comes I haven't noticed it? After running Gentoo since 2004 I have no clue what some users mean by increased complexity. It takes virtually no user time to upgrade, I'd say less than a minute, unless something comes up, which can happen when running ~arch.
Back to this topic. Our OP states he is leaving Gentoo. Good for him, I assume, so why rant about it?

I'm not saying it is or isn't complex / high-cost to maintain a Gentoo box, just that the discussion is around that premise. I actually think Gentoo makes it simple to maintain a system, so long as you understand "the Gentoo way". The high-cost part comes with using a source-based distro in the first place, but then again, anyone that chooses to use Gentoo chose to do so, so I don't think it's something reasonable to criticize.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Waterdevil
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Portage is a very good tool - maybe the best in unix-world too.

This thread is very good for learning both what to do for best setting up the own setup - like ian.au's tip for list all installed pkgs: eix -c --installed-unstable , Neddy emerge @security
and the history. It's interesting to read, that it was much more complicated till 2000.

I cannot do more than want to learn and wrestle since may daily 10 hours. My girlfriend want to leave me...

I'm not the one who asks for the way. In windows I been asked from hundreds. But wiNsa-dows is no option.

What is wrong, when all things are so good? Maybe documentation? The first steps with the gentoo handbook were very good. The handbook is the best what i know.
So maybe there is a need for a maintaining handbook or knowledge base. I'm willing to help writing it. As long I write no wrong things.

I think all involved people do a good job and I'm not aiming them.

I want to get a better solution for gentoo-beginners like me.
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,AsrockZ97,i7,MEM:32G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChan,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Waterdevil
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[irony on]I think there is a gentoo worm.

There is dirt on the monitor and I want to remove it. Then the computer freezes.
after reboot strange things happen.
after that the print job hangs.
after that the printer is missing.
after reboot some applications are missing.
after trying to emerge the missing packages they fail.
after solving them other packages have dependency conflicts.
after solving half of them blockers occur.
after trying to solve them graphics starts no more.
after trying to solve display manager x-server crashes.
after reading /var/log/Xorg.0.log the keyboard language is missing.
after reboot only single mode is possible.
then no more editing arrow are working.
then zfs pool with 50tb is corrupt.
naturally there is no backup.
after "solving" this grub>
after three days grub rescue>
after another day the wall plug is broken.
after that my ups explodes.
after my room and the house is burning down I evacuate the power plant.[/irony off]

P.S.: all this things and double more happened to me in gentoo last half year (all but not last two)
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,AsrockZ97,i7,MEM:32G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChan,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Waterdevil
n00b
n00b


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complexity?

Nice to read, that before 2000 it was worse.

My facts:

bought a new lenovo notebook in july - installed gentoo, couldn't use it till today. now the mess is bigger than ever. initramfs freezes. With rescue stick and chroot glibc doesn't emerge, says a kernel option is missing. 250 packages don't emerge too.

bliss-initramfs for root-on-zfs only exits. I tried Neddy's fix https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7476018.html but glibc can't be corrected.

second computer: installed gentoo in may. since then every time 3-8 packages couldn't emerge, new blockers I couldn't solve, dependency conflicts still prevent many things.
I want to use xen since may. I couldn't do i - not 1 time. xen fail, xen ok, xen-tools fail. xen-tools ok, qemu fail.

I work on correcting gentoo, emerging, reading websites, forum 10 hours every day. If I make a new install I'm sure the same mess is in very short time.

I never can emerge --depclean. I every time have to use emerge --unmerge.

I'm interested in openssl, llvm, ocaml or such packages and the version number 0.1345.23.56.655-r1-xb-z2 like if there is falling a sack with rice in china!

I'm interested in install back end applications like libreoffice, thunderbird, shotwell, wine, xen, vmm and their versions, but the depending packages HAVE TO install without an nobel price in portage or be sherlock, sheldon or monk.
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,AsrockZ97,i7,MEM:32G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChan,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 39308
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waterdevil,

Waterdevil wrote:
I work on correcting gentoo, emerging, reading websites, forum 10 hours every day. If I make a new install I'm sure the same mess is in very short time.


The lesson there is that reinstalling will not fix Gentoo. It only gives you the opportunity to make different mistakes.
To learn Gentoo you need to keep in mind :-

a) Baby steps. Make small changes and test.
b) Fix it before you move on. Build on what you know works.
c) It you can't fix it ask here.

a) keeps the problem space small, so that problems are more easily understood.

When it goes wrong and you fix it, you will learn more than when it 'just works'
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fitzcarraldo
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 1338
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to re-emphasise the importance of updating an installation frequently, I am in the throws of an upgrade to an ~amd64 installation that had not been touched since the beginning of September. As a consequence, the upgrade has been more difficult and taken much longer than would have been the case had frequent upgrades been performed.

I was away from home from mid September to mid November and did not have the time to upgrade the installation until now, mid December. I was unlucky in the sense that, during that nearly three-and-a-half month period, there was the Perl 5.26 update, the change to Python targets, the dropping of the un-slotted WINE package and the profile change from 13.0 to 17.0. In addition, the installation still had some packages dependent on Qt4 and needed to be migrated fully to Qt5.

I started upgrading at 11:30 a.m. on 13 December. It is now 11:30 a.m. on 15 December and I am now on the home straight. There are about 360/1616 packages still to rebuild, with a few failed merges to resolve at the end of that. Of course that two-day period includes the overnight hiatuses when I could not work on the various blockers and breakages, and resume the upgrade.

Anyway, my point is that, if one upgrades frequently, it is much, much easier to avoid such lengthy and difficult upgrades.
_________________
Clevo W230SS: amd64, OpenRC, nvidia-drivers & xf86-video-intel.
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, OpenRC, xf86-video-ati, dual booting with Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
KDE on both laptops.

Fitzcarraldo's blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Portage & Programming All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum