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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: Portage update - PDEPEND (xorg-drivers) Reply with quote

Hi! A guy (sebB) updated his system after changing the INPUT_DEVICES variable (INPUT_DEVICES="libinput"). Oddly, xorg-drivers does not appear in the list of software to update.
However, a manual installation indicates that the addition of libinput is considered by Portage.

Code:
emerge -uDNv @world
[ebuild   R    ] kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.9.5:5::gentoo  USE="fontconfig pulseaudio -appstream -debug -gtk2 -gtk3 -handbook -ibus -legacy-systray -qt4 -scim -semantic-desktop {-test}" INPUT_DEVICES="-evdev* -synaptics*" 0 KiB


Code:
emerge -pv xorg-drivers
[ebuild   R    ] x11-base/xorg-drivers-1.19::gentoo  INPUT_DEVICES="libinput* -acecad -aiptek -elographics -evdev* -fpit -hyperpen -joystick -keyboard -mouse -mutouch -penmount -synaptics* -tslib -vmmouse -void -wacom"


I believe we haven't fixed the issue. Currently, I believe the origin of the problem is related to PDEPEND but without proof.

Could someone help me to understand the issue? Unfortunately, the problem is old and we will not be able to exploit the environment of the original poster.

Edit: Plasma has been installing with the package kde-plasma/plasma-meta.
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to try to find fault in your posting this information, however the only one of these that matters is the xorg-drivers, other than @world update showing that a particular package doesn't involve the expanded USE variable for libinput (which is KDE or plasma desktop). So what is the goal of pointing to portage as a source of the problem here? When more than likely it was a conflict with the profile selected or something in another file like the portage default settings or whatever. Either way, unless this was a hardware related question of something not working correctly, which I don't know but seems pretty obvious that if you want to have certain drivers compiled it is best not just to set them in a file like in the make.conf location but to redo the important software installations, in this case since input_devices that would mean xorg drivers, and possible xorg server.

Basically, the answer to this has to be in the Xorg/guide and if you feel differently then say so!
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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The inability to understand the operation of the package manager and the inadequacy of the result call into question the reliability of the package manager for the user.
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(EDITED BELOW)

I see. Sounds like you are on top of the issue, but i am curious to know from the perspective of a person that knows about ebuilds in portage/gentoo. What does PDEPEND do...for the dependencies. Also, in this case, if the user proceeds with the update without xorg-drivers will subsequent updates pick it up later or not? I guess that is asking to take a lot of things into account, like a chicken and egg kind of discussion. But then again, why wouldn't the drivers be updated easily from the world set, or is that also part of the point of the variables that require some maintaining at this point?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am helpless and disenchanted. I would have loved to be a powerful user to perceive the flaws and retrospectively compare the path traveled.
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who maintains the package manager (portage) for Gentoo and why does a message like this end up in the forum to begin with?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Gentoo is a sprawling system and I present my dismay to close the thread. Thanks LIsLinuxIsSogood for your consideration!

I do not think there is user-level documentation that simply explains the operation of the package manager.
Even worse, there is probably no technical documentation. It seems that the developers consider that the reading of
the source code is sufficient. In my opinion, the documentation is not accessible to the user.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helecho wrote:
I do not think there is user-level documentation that simply explains the operation of the package manager.
Even worse, there is probably no technical documentation. It seems that the developers consider that the reading of
the source code is sufficient. In my opinion, the documentation is not accessible to the user.

I think you're being rather unfair, helecho. The user-level documentation may not be perfect, but there is quite a bit of it and I think it is a good attempt for a free-of-charge open-source distribution produced by volunteers who are not paid to produce commercial documentation. The Gentoo Handbook is a good start in my opinion (in addition to the Gentoo Wiki page Portage, 'man portage', 'man emerge', etc.) and there are numerous articles in the Gentoo Wiki that help users to use Portage (Gentoo Cheat Sheet is just one of the many). Portage is a complex and sophisticated package manager, and you cannot expect user documentation to explain it succinctly and easily. A medical student is not going to find simple and accessible documentation on brain surgery either [I know that is hyberbole]. As far as developer documentation is concerned, that also exists (such as the Gentoo Development Guide, 'man portage', etc.).
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A medical student is not going to find simple and accessible documentation on brain surgery either [I know that is hyberbole].

Let's hope this is not the case, but I will check with my doctor friend to see if they are aware of the problem existing.

IMHO as helecho points out user documentation in Gentoo needs to be improved, revamped, etc. always. In addition, with open-source software, it is the packages source code which is really where it is at. So the challenge is going to get REAL ANSWERS when the problems that exist may be way over their head. (Even for something simple like an update to the system). I am not a developer, but I would guess that unless the user is claiming that it is totally incompatible with the ideal for how it should be, then it is not a game-changer and life must go on, imperfect before these Gentoo maintainers can even consider changing anything. They must have their hands full maintaining the portage tree, and vast amount of changes to things like linux kernel, hardware and software stuff.

Here is just an anecdote to hopefully help reconcile the need for the rest of this is my personal experience with documentation issues that occurred during an Upgrade, of my own, a while back. I forget the exact package (but you can imagine it being something core to the system, like either a dev-lang package or compiler or something like that)...I needed the information that I couldn't myself seem to find laid out either in the output from emerge (mentioned only to make sure something was a bug before reporting it to the maintainers), when in fact the package maintainers already knew about it and had opened a bug. What's that about? Anyway, by my own lack of experience, this having been the first time I encountered a bug actually from within portage (not complaining about that), the situation was not so clearly there in the output and I did not have the thought for myself to go searching for the bug. I don't think I was instructed to ever go search the bug site to check if it existed there! Anyway, it sent me for a big loop and I couldn't understand what was going on until I decided to post on the forum and someone pointed me to the bugs wiki.
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonetheless, thank you Fitzcarraldo, for a nicely done job at gathering some of those important tools. I'm going to create a folder in my bookmarks right now for them!
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Mr. T.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metaphorically, the current does not pass or goes wrong in a faulty electrical installation. It is likely that developers have an engineer level and they do not care about users.

I think that the community is welded around conservative users who master their system and experts who imagine cutting-edge technologies. There is no renewal in user profiles.
Users with different profiles experiences it to their detriment. I may be unfair but this situation is unfair.

The community is cheated as a whole. It is unfortunately likely that I am right. Disagreements are destructive ; they are not false pretenses or prejudices since
complaints are recurring over time.
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