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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Mail clients, what do you use? Reply with quote

I've decided I've had enough of claws-mail and want something new. The rough GTK1-era UI was fine by me, but it corrupting all my settings (including logins) after a power failure is not OK; I haven't seen software that loses so badly in a very long time. The lack of IMAP push support is annoying also, given that 99% of what I use it for is notification or authentication cruft that should be delivered on time.

What's the current state of email software? Last time I looked Thunderbird was officially on death row and KMail was still the world's only email client without the ability to receive mail, ten years running.
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Hund
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Mutt myself. But I would like to recommend Mailnag. It's a great little standalone tool for push IMAP notifications, if you're okay with GTK3 that is. And if notifications is important you, check out Dunst, which is an advanced yet lightweight notification daemon with a lot of neat features like rules.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderbird dead? That is news to me. New releases keep getting pushed all the time.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Thunderbird dead? That is news to me. New releases keep getting pushed all the time.


It's not dead. But it's not developed by Mozilla anymore though. It's in the hands of the community now. :)

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=366405
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently I use evolution because I need Exchange web services support
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1clue
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hund wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Thunderbird dead? That is news to me. New releases keep getting pushed all the time.


It's not dead. But it's not developed by Mozilla anymore though. It's in the hands of the community now. :)

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=366405


That often means it's going to be better than ever.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hund wrote:
I use Mutt myself. But I would like to recommend Mailnag. It's a great little standalone tool for push IMAP notifications, if you're okay with GTK3 that is. And if notifications is important you, check out Dunst, which is an advanced yet lightweight notification daemon with a lot of neat features like rules.

GTK3's already on my system (seems to be a hard dependency to access the web these days), and so is dunst. But I think I'll pass on the app, my phone does a good enough job of telling me there's something to read (less so for actually reading it)

Going to give mutt a try. Looks like it'll fit right in alongside my irssi session...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evolution works pretty well for me. I've created a few accounts with IMAP/SMTP and a local-delivery one with maildir format.
One thing that bothers me a bit is that I don't know how to protect local copy from deletion by the server.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alpine most of the time.
Evolution occasionally. Got it to work because it came with the gnome.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use kmail2; works for me most of the time, then someone in KDE head office improves it, and I have to delete the akonadi database, and reconfigure all the settings that loses. My wife uses SeaMonkey; a bit of a dinosaur, but it works fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently I don't use any mail client. I rely on FastMail webmail. I can't use Evolution or Thunderbird because my current Gentoo system is based on Qt5 and I don't allow any GTK+ applications. Trojita is not good enough unfortunately. In the future I may try some Emacs-based mail client.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use thunderbird, its ok. Kube looks very awesome, but I cannot configure gmail there. And it shows double imap dirs for zoho .... But in few years it could be good :D
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1clue
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mir3x wrote:
I use thunderbird, its ok. Kube looks very awesome, but I cannot configure gmail there. And it shows double imap dirs for zoho .... But in few years it could be good :D


I've been using thunderbird for multiple gmail accounts for more than a year. Never noticed a problem. And they're both using imap.

One of those gmail accounts is a purchased small business domain hosted on gmail servers, the other is an @gmail.com server.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Zoho via Rambox count? Rambox is a love/hate, though. It's basically a dumbed down web browser, and I often wonder if it's really worth the resources vs another Firefox window. But it is a semi-unified interface, and can be minimized to the tray w/ decent notifications on most services.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:

I've been using thunderbird for multiple gmail accounts for more than a year. Never noticed a problem. And they're both using imap.

It was about Kube. Thunderbird is ok.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The general state of email clients is very depressing indeed, isn't it? I'm using Claws and have been for quite a long time - and Sylpheed before that for at least a decade. Going back a very long time, I was quite happy with the original KMail, even after I stopped using KDE, but all that semantic desktop garbage killed it for me.

I must say I don't recall ever having a corruption issue like you saw with Claws (I do normally use a UPS although it died a month ago and haven't replaced it yet.)

Thunderbird kind of works but it's a horrible bloated mess; Trojita looked very promising but is nowhere near developed enough for real world use and sadly doesn't look like getting there any time soon.

I have installed Mutt a few times as most of my work is in a Screen session anyway but somehow it doesn't really seem to work the way my brain does. I used Pine a long, long time ago but really don't feel it's as convenient or quick for me to use as Claws mail, so I'm stuck with Claws for now.

In one way my expectation that a mail client should be extremely resource efficient doesn't make sense as I have loads of RAM, and plenty spare CPU cycles but I have those resources in reserve for specific situations, not to allow for shoddy programming and pointless layers of redirection bloat...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GUIs themselves eat up a lot of CPU resources, not to mention rendering HTML (at least in Evolution, the rendering speed is awful for some reason)

Then again in alpine - a text mail client - sorting thousands of mails in thread order can be slow at times too. Processing the LKML by thread sometimes takes a noticeable amount of time when there's a lot of messages in the mailbox (like a month's worth) even on my c2q.

It's sort of sad that squirrelmail got lastrited from portage. Then you'd even have browser HTML mail as an option...
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1clue
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to use pine years back, but the nature of my work and dealing with customers means I need to be able to handle html and attachments and pictures/video and tons of other stuff that pine never did well.

Before some pine fanatic goes off on me, pine did handle attachments, but didn't put them in the part of the message they were dropped in, so when it's "customer production system down" status the extra time spent to figure out which attachment the customer means, significant money may be lost.

The days of simple mail are over. In fact, anyone having tried to configure and secure a publicly accessible mail server may argue that mail was never simple since the days of arpanet.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course it depends on the nature of what you're doing. If you need to deal with html, then use html. The vast majority of my mail does not need html and the rest gets fed into Evolution to parse. Oddly enough, mails that Evolution choke on, alpine does well; and of course all the graphics laden mail alpine doesn't render Evolution gets just fine. Then again any linked pictures don't automatically get loaded in either client (by choice) and thus both look ratty on these mails.

It also follows that if pine doesn't do, mutt, elm, the original BSD mailx, etc., won't either as all suffer from the same basic problem. Alpine could do a little better by html inline ref linking of attachments, perhaps that could be submitted as a feature enhancement.

To enable the dual client I ended up having to set up IMAP on my server and not deal with just SMTP/maildir/mbox. Yes, the authentication is annoying to set up.

There's a condensed table of mail clients to peruse on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJM wrote:
I have installed Mutt a few times as most of my work is in a Screen session anyway but somehow it doesn't really seem to work the way my brain does.

After trying it for a day... this sounds about right. It feels like it can't decide whether it wants to be ex-vi or gnu style bindings, scrolling through messages without accidentally being thrown into the next one is hard, and context-switching between my local and imap account is a bit of a hassle. I've already had to weed out some other bad defaults just to be able to copy and paste long URLs.

I like how it works out of the box with my existing postfix/dovecot though; claws doesn't support maildirs, only mbox files.

It's a mixed bag, but then again no other email program I've used has stood out as polished software, so I might as well give it a chance.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
AJM wrote:
I have installed Mutt a few times as most of my work is in a Screen session anyway but somehow it doesn't really seem to work the way my brain does.

After trying it for a day... this sounds about right. It feels like it can't decide whether it wants to be ex-vi or gnu style bindings, scrolling through messages without accidentally being thrown into the next one is hard, and context-switching between my local and imap account is a bit of a hassle. I've already had to weed out some other bad defaults just to be able to copy and paste long URLs.

I like how it works out of the box with my existing postfix/dovecot though; claws doesn't support maildirs, only mbox files.

It's a mixed bag, but then again no other email program I've used has stood out as polished software, so I might as well give it a chance.


Mutt is extremely customizable, so I'd definitely recommend giving it a chance. If it isn't working quite the way you want it to, (assuming you've read the wiki) there's quite a few examples online of how people have played with the config and key bindings.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
It's sort of sad that squirrelmail got lastrited from portage.

Have you tried RoundCube? Unlike SquirrelMail, it's still being maintained. You'd have enable Javascript in the browser because it depends on AJAX, but other than that it seems to be a modernized SquirrelMail.

I know about it because they replaced SquirrelMail with RoundCube at work. It works kind of well, but I prefer a real client like Thunderbird or SeaMonkey Mail (I use both of those). I never tried installing RoundCube myself--or SquirrelMail for that matter, but I see it's in Portage.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderbird is alive and kicking: The Mozilla Thunderbird Blog - Thunderbird's Future Home, 9 May 2017
Quote:
The Mozilla Foundation has agreed to continue as Thunderbird’s legal, fiscal and cultural home, with the following provisos:

A. The Thunderbird Council and the Mozilla Foundation executive team maintain a good working relationship and make decisions in a timely manner.
B. The Thunderbird Council and the team make meaningful progress in short order on operational and technical independence from Mozilla Corporation.
C. Either side may give the other six months notice if they wish to discontinue the Mozilla Foundation’s role as the legal and fiscal host of the Thunderbird project.

Mozilla would invoke C if A+B don’t happen. If C happened, Thunderbird would be expected to move to another organization over the course of six months.

I've been using Thunderbird since early 2007. I use it to manage two personal e-mail accounts and four work e-mail accounts, two of which are corporate Microsoft Exchange Outlook Web Access accounts (one that Thunderbird accesses via DavMail Gateway, another excellent FOSS application; the other -- which DavMail Gateway cannot handle -- that Thunderbird accesses via the ExQuilla add-on, for which I happily pay US$10 per year).

In early 2007 I imported all my e-mails from 2002 onwards into Thunderbird, and today my Thunderbird installation has more than 19,500 e-mails in approaching 500 folders. On my previous laptops that dual booted with Windows, the Thunderbird files resided on a NTFS partition jointly accessed by Linux (ext4 file system) and Windows. Thunderbird in each OS had its own separate prefs.js file but accessed the same e-mail folders and files. On my current main laptop I only have Gentoo installed, so I have the Thunderbird files on an ext4 partition. By the way, Thunderbird >=51.0 no longer has the 4GB folder size limit (see Bugzilla@Mozilla - Remove 4GB of folder size warning (mailboxTooLarge="The folder %S is full") after 4GB backend work is complete).

I use Thunderbird’s filtering and search tools regularly, and find them good. I also like the tabbing UI. I use Thunderbird’s Lightning calendar and meeting invitation tools frequently.

My only grumbles would be the unintuitive method of specifying the e-mail account to use to send acknowledgements to event invitations, and that it is not possible to specify directly which e-mail account sends an acknowledgement according to which e-mail account received the invitation. I use a work-around of multiple calendars, one per e-mail account. In 'Calendar Properties...' there is an associated e-mail account, so I specify a different e-mail account for each calendar. Then, whenever an invitation arrives and I accept it, it appears in the calendar associated with that e-mail address and the acknowledgement e-mail is sent from that account.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use webmail and (neo)mutt. I have three account and only few (thousand) mail.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kmail/Korganizer/Kontact with DavMail Gateway for exchange
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