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Old School
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Star Trek: Discovery Reply with quote

Anyone watch? I liked it, although I don't know why they had to change Klingons again.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly gave up on the franchise after they tanked Enterprise and cancelled it. The movie reboot was my final nail.

As for the Klingons, they're probably doing what the movies did, abandoning any other world history so they can abuse the IP without having to think.
wp wrote:
Set roughly a decade before the events of the original Star Trek series and separate from the timeline of the concurrent feature films, Discovery explores the Federation–Klingon cold war

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would have to be set in a "different timeline" for people to believe a female captain could stand up against the greats, after the abortion of a captain that Janeway was. After watching the teaser and seeing what looked like two diversity hire main characters, a black lady and an Asian lady both in senior command, it made me think the SJWs have just rebooted the series in an attempt to push more of their political shit. Let's not even talk about the Klingons or the advanced technology (in relation to TOS).

This is me being cynical. I will watch it with an open mind but, after the teaser I have serious reservations and that makes me sad because it could be so good...

Which leads me to another question, if producers want to demonstrate such advanced tech why the hell do they always make prequels??
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't watch it, but I heard about it on NPR (who were of course bitching about the Klingons being dark "MUH RACISM!"). They mentioned something about having to sign on to some streaming service to watch episodes past 1? Seemed like a weird move.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HungGarTiger wrote:
It would have to be set in a "different timeline" for people to believe a female captain could stand up against the greats, after the abortion of a captain that Janeway was.
I originally couldn't watch Voyager in large part due to Janeway (I wanted to like her, but...). A few or more years ago I watched a Trek Captains panel which included Mulgrew. She explained that she objected to the portrayal of the character (she elaborated, but I don't want to paraphrase negligently). A while back I started watching the series from the beginning, and I've been able to enjoy it more.

HungGarTiger wrote:
Let's not even talk about the Klingons or the advanced technology (in relation to TOS).
That's a tough one. SciFi generally has a small audience, and I'm guessing retro special effects aren't going to to be a draw for many non-fans. I think that's one area where some leeway has to be allowed. For example, I thought they did a pretty good job balancing technology with effects in Enterprise. But even there, it seemed like some of their tech was too advanced.

HungGarTiger wrote:
Which leads me to another question, if producers want to demonstrate such advanced tech why the hell do they always make prequels??
They're desperate in trying to capture the success of the past without the methods of the past. The era of new series was also likely to have been heavily influenced by the success of the movie reboot.

As for diversity, keep in mind TOS. If the current series did a good job with casting and they are able to do a good job with writing, it may be among the better Treks as it relates to the goals of the original. TOS very much covered social taboos of the time involving gender and race. Continuing with that for the current time and executing it well would be great. If it got those reviews, I'd sign up with whatever half-baked streaming service they offered.

I just don't have a lot of faith that the decision makers are capable of making the right decisions for the right reasons. The general track record leads me to that conclusion.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the SJW contamination like ?

Old JB tends to sit down with a pint on Wednesdays and this would make for good viewing via Netflix, but if the aforementioned SJW quotient is too high I ain't bothering. I've stopped watching BBC funded/developed drama for this reason.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
What's the SJW contamination like ?

Old JB tends to sit down with a pint on Wednesdays and this would make for good viewing via Netflix, but if the aforementioned SJW quotient is too high I ain't bothering. I've stopped watching BBC funded/developed drama for this reason.
I didn't see any SJW contamination, but I wasn't intent on being offended. I just wanted to be entertained.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
What's the SJW contamination like ?

Old JB tends to sit down with a pint on Wednesdays and this would make for good viewing via Netflix, but if the aforementioned SJW quotient is too high I ain't bothering. I've stopped watching BBC funded/developed drama for this reason.
I didn't see any SJW contamination, but I wasn't intent on being offended. I just wanted to be entertained.


That's good to hear, hopefully the show is easy to download
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

watched the 1st episode... I think they have overegged the klingons, not only in how they look but how they behave.
apart from that, not to bad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
What's the SJW contamination like ?

Old JB tends to sit down with a pint on Wednesdays and this would make for good viewing via Netflix, but if the aforementioned SJW quotient is too high I ain't bothering. I've stopped watching BBC funded/developed drama for this reason.
I didn't see any SJW contamination, but I wasn't intent on being offended. I just wanted to be entertained.
really? nasty, evil white Klingon hell bent of destroying everything (since come on you know he is going to pick up the mantle) and the black female is going to be the protagonist (sure in prison now but that isn't going to last)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
What's the SJW contamination like ?

Old JB tends to sit down with a pint on Wednesdays and this would make for good viewing via Netflix, but if the aforementioned SJW quotient is too high I ain't bothering. I've stopped watching BBC funded/developed drama for this reason.
I didn't see any SJW contamination, but I wasn't intent on being offended. I just wanted to be entertained.


I'm probably being over sensitive (the BBC will do that to you), I noticed that the lead character happened to be of the female persuasion and also called "Michael" .

That started the "I identify as CVCXFGFCCVFDVVB!!!" alarm bells ringing I'll admit.

Old JB will give it the benefit of the doubt and this rather tasty IPA and a packet of pork scratchings that I have saved up.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, just finished watching, initially was going to stop at episode one and consider, ended up viewing both of 'em.

Not bad, visuals are really good - I think they made a mistake with the look of the Klingons, should have gone classic * , that would have linked nicely with Enterprise too.

JB will carry on watching ...


* edit also the prosthetics felt *really* uncomfortble and made my teeth itch for some reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished watching the first two episodes actually due to this topic. My problems with it so far:

- Michael's acting seems melodramatic; not that the acting is bad but the character is just annoyingly melodramatic in how she talks when she gets emotional
- Plot doesn't seem to be interesting or going anywhere thus far
- Bald Klingons are silly and it breaks the Canon that DS9 and Enterprise introduced that Klingons in fact did not have ridges at the time due to some virus or whatever.
- Life imprisonment for mutiny? Come on.

I'll watch the third though since Orphan Black ended and Dark Matter got cancelled I need something.

Also who gives a shit about that there is a ship with the two senior officers being female and not white; people who care about that are literally worse than people who give shits about too many white people. Especially because it's just realistic that the majority of Starfleet isn't going to be white. Hell in 400 years humanity will have interbred into some brown soup anyway.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mi_unixbird wrote:
- Life imprisonment for mutiny? Come on..


I know, that struck me as a bit limp too.

Keelhauling in SPACE ! would have been more appropiate.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

star trek was already a show about diversity in a post-communist post-marxist society. the replicator removed all material scarcity, and dilithium crystals made energy free. they've already had female captains, black captains, and numerous races and species in high esteem.

but SJWs had to fucking drive this shit into the ground because apparently that still wasn't enough diversity...

they made klingons blue because dark brown skinned warmongers is racist against blacks and asians and muzzies.

they made the captain female asian.

they made the captain's #2 a black woman who is part vulcan so she's super smart.

the made the only white man an alien fairy (flamboyant gay man).

diversity to SJWs means women first, then racial minorities in the US, muslims, and LGBTs. white males must be LGBT or they're villains. nevermind the fact that whites are a global minority...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point was more I guess than modern "diversity efforts" that Gene didn't want Starfleet to be an American thing but a global human thing. Modern diversity efforts are all "African American" and "Asian American" and stuff because the US is the main place where this diversity garbage lives while in Star Trek Uhura was actually from "The African Federation" and Sulu was actually from Japan. It was more about nationality than race as the white characters of Chekov and Scotty were not American either. The point was to show that border conflicts were gone and humanity had united so a ship crewed by purely Americans sort of takes that away. A lot of sci-fi is of course very America-centric and Star Trek is that too in the end calling a lot of things which are just American things "human customs". This is also what Pacific Rim did; it wasn't about race but about nationality and they didn't want to make an "Independence Day" where the mighty US army is the first line of defence against evil aliens like the rest of the world doesn't exist.

A lot of modern US "diversity" efforts are about race, not nationality and deeply US-centric and they often fail to acknowledge that the truth is simply that the US is a 2/3 white country and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that all the while denying the truth that the US is not the only place on Earth and the Earth is definitely not majority white or US.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mi_unixbird wrote:
Modern diversity efforts are all "African American" and "Asian American" and stuff because the US is the main place where this diversity garbage lives
Those are all now a different number one priority than the current number one priority of gender and identity diversity. The show is made in the US, almost certainly by people of that ideology, or at least aware of fallout from not abiding by that ideology. Gene is no longer around, and it is quite clear that his interests are no longer at the forefront of consideration.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, but one can get caught up in being offended, and begin to look for ways. That is the problem with SJWs. I'll just watch the show and see if it entertains me.

At least that ham, Patrick Stewart isn't on the show. :P
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't offend me any more than would a diagnosis of serious health problems. And sure, I engage in unhealthy behaviors which are also enjoyable. To each their own.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
mi_unixbird wrote:
Modern diversity efforts are all "African American" and "Asian American" and stuff because the US is the main place where this diversity garbage lives
Those are all now a different number one priority than the current number one priority of gender and identity diversity. The show is made in the US, almost certainly by people of that ideology, or at least aware of fallout from not abiding by that ideology. Gene is no longer around, and it is quite clear that his interests are no longer at the forefront of consideration.


Oh come on there is nothing of that crap in these two episodes.

Are people seriously angry that the CO and the XO are female now in two episodes? That's like someone else said trying really hard to get offended and searching for a reason.

The captain in the regular run is going to be a white male. Come ooon ohh the horror of a female captain and XO. It was the last combination left anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mi_unixbird wrote:
The captain in the regular run is going to be a white male. Come ooon ohh the horror of a female captain and XO. It was the last combination left anyway.


It's not, non-binary gender fluid is.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mi_unixbird wrote:
Oh come on there is nothing of that crap in these two episodes.

Are people seriously angry that the CO and the XO are female now in two episodes? That's like someone else said trying really hard to get offended and searching for a reason.

The captain in the regular run is going to be a white male. Come ooon ohh the horror of a female captain and XO. It was the last combination left anyway.
I'm not offended by it. I'm commenting on people in the industry in general. I have an earlier post in the thread where I mention Roddenberry's social interests and that if done well in this new series would be very much in keeping with TOS.

As I've yet to see the new show, I'm not judging it one way or another. However, since the movie reboot threw away the entire universe and this series is doing the same thing, it becomes a different show entirely. The new series isn't as bad as the movies in that the movies recreated the old characters in a different timeline. Time jumping was the worst part of Star Trek, and rebooting with that for me was awful. As for the new series, I don't see any good reason (other than creative laziness) to throw away the established universe if they're then going to put in a timeline referencing when it takes place in relation to TOS (IIRC).

And that you felt it necessary to comment that "it was the last combination left" is noteworthy about the show (but it isn't the last combination). I don't care who or what they put into the show until it feels like a checklist. Good shows don't need those gimmicks. They're good shows because of the writing and actors, and sometimes because they are groundbreaking (TOS). Then hopefully the check-writers don't get too involved in the creative aspects (Janeway being played as a "feminist with something to prove").
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mi_unixbird wrote:
pjp wrote:
mi_unixbird wrote:
Modern diversity efforts are all "African American" and "Asian American" and stuff because the US is the main place where this diversity garbage lives
Those are all now a different number one priority than the current number one priority of gender and identity diversity. The show is made in the US, almost certainly by people of that ideology, or at least aware of fallout from not abiding by that ideology. Gene is no longer around, and it is quite clear that his interests are no longer at the forefront of consideration.


Oh come on there is nothing of that crap in these two episodes.

Are people seriously angry that the CO and the XO are female now in two episodes? That's like someone else said trying really hard to get offended and searching for a reason.

The captain in the regular run is going to be a white male. Come ooon ohh the horror of a female captain and XO. It was the last combination left anyway.
noone is getting offended except those who the show doesn't want to offend. They basically covered the Klingons in every shade from dulux to be inclusive & not target one specific tone/culture who could get offended by association (except white males, fuk them right). If that doesn't show you the impact of appeasement I do not know what will
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
association (except white males, fuk them right). If that doesn't show you the impact of appeasement I do not know what will



It's worse than that, white is stated to be inferior to blue, but white can still mean something if he accedes to blue.

I thought that Discovery wasn't bad, on reflection it needs a kick up the arse so to speak, that might happen with episode 3.

Edit - That's the trouble with the SJW infestation that we've got, you don't know how much yoiu need to read into cast/script choices these days.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't matter. My complete set of Battlestar Galactica DVDs arrived yesterday.
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