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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

So, by pulling out of an agreement (in which countries set their own targets, and there's no mechanism to enforce these targets), Trump flubs an easy win.

I'm sure he'll try and take the credit for the reduction in the future.

Quote:
Renewable energy is becoming so cheap the US will meet Paris commitments even if Trump withdraws

Research analysts at Morgan Stanley believe that renewable energy like solar and wind power are hurtling towards a level of ubiquity where not even politics can hinder them. Renewable energy is simply becoming the cheapest option, fast. Basic economics, the analysts say, suggest that the US will exceed its commitments in the Paris agreement regardless of whether or not president Donald Trump withdraws, as he’s stated he will.

“We project that by 2020, renewables will be the cheapest form of new-power generation across the globe,” with the exception of a few countries in Southeast Asia, the Morgan Stanley analysts said in a report published Thursday.

“By our forecasts, in most cases favorable renewables economics rather than government policy will be the primary driver of changes to utilities’ carbon emissions levels,” they wrote. “For example, notwithstanding president Trump’s stated intention to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, we expect the US to exceed the Paris commitment of a 26-28% reduction in its 2005-level carbon emissions by 2020.”

Globally, the price of solar panels has fallen 50% between 2016 and 2017, they write. And in countries with favorable wind conditions, the costs associated with wind power “can be as low as one-half to one-third that of coal- or natural gas-fired power plants.” Innovations in wind-turbine design are allowing for ever-longer wind blades; that boost in efficiency will also increase power output from the wind sector, according to Morgan Stanley.


https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-becoming-so-cheap-the-us-will-meet-paris-commitments-even-if-trump-withdraws/

The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
So, by pulling out of an agreement (in which countries set their own targets, and there's no mechanism to enforce these targets), Trump flubs an easy win.

I'm sure he'll try and take the credit for the reduction in the future.

Quote:
Renewable energy is becoming so cheap the US will meet Paris commitments even if Trump withdraws

Research analysts at Morgan Stanley believe that renewable energy like solar and wind power are hurtling towards a level of ubiquity where not even politics can hinder them. Renewable energy is simply becoming the cheapest option, fast. Basic economics, the analysts say, suggest that the US will exceed its commitments in the Paris agreement regardless of whether or not president Donald Trump withdraws, as he’s stated he will.

“We project that by 2020, renewables will be the cheapest form of new-power generation across the globe,” with the exception of a few countries in Southeast Asia, the Morgan Stanley analysts said in a report published Thursday.

“By our forecasts, in most cases favorable renewables economics rather than government policy will be the primary driver of changes to utilities’ carbon emissions levels,” they wrote. “For example, notwithstanding president Trump’s stated intention to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, we expect the US to exceed the Paris commitment of a 26-28% reduction in its 2005-level carbon emissions by 2020.”

Globally, the price of solar panels has fallen 50% between 2016 and 2017, they write. And in countries with favorable wind conditions, the costs associated with wind power “can be as low as one-half to one-third that of coal- or natural gas-fired power plants.” Innovations in wind-turbine design are allowing for ever-longer wind blades; that boost in efficiency will also increase power output from the wind sector, according to Morgan Stanley.


https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-becoming-so-cheap-the-us-will-meet-paris-commitments-even-if-trump-withdraws/

The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy.
I covered this... EU and USA were already on target to meet some arbitrarily set limits (see the Paris accord thread). THe Paris accord was about bring the big polluters into the agreement: India & China. The Paris accord basically legitimized India & China to INCREASE polluting (by decreasing rate of increase..) while being paid by EU and USA.

So Sherlock, explain why this is a good deal for USA and EU if they were already going to meet the targets? This is why pulling out was the right thing todo as it was just a transfer of capital
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
sugar wrote:
So, by pulling out of an agreement (in which countries set their own targets, and there's no mechanism to enforce these targets), Trump flubs an easy win.

I'm sure he'll try and take the credit for the reduction in the future.

Quote:
Renewable energy is becoming so cheap the US will meet Paris commitments even if Trump withdraws

Research analysts at Morgan Stanley believe that renewable energy like solar and wind power are hurtling towards a level of ubiquity where not even politics can hinder them. Renewable energy is simply becoming the cheapest option, fast. Basic economics, the analysts say, suggest that the US will exceed its commitments in the Paris agreement regardless of whether or not president Donald Trump withdraws, as he’s stated he will.

“We project that by 2020, renewables will be the cheapest form of new-power generation across the globe,” with the exception of a few countries in Southeast Asia, the Morgan Stanley analysts said in a report published Thursday.

“By our forecasts, in most cases favorable renewables economics rather than government policy will be the primary driver of changes to utilities’ carbon emissions levels,” they wrote. “For example, notwithstanding president Trump’s stated intention to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, we expect the US to exceed the Paris commitment of a 26-28% reduction in its 2005-level carbon emissions by 2020.”

Globally, the price of solar panels has fallen 50% between 2016 and 2017, they write. And in countries with favorable wind conditions, the costs associated with wind power “can be as low as one-half to one-third that of coal- or natural gas-fired power plants.” Innovations in wind-turbine design are allowing for ever-longer wind blades; that boost in efficiency will also increase power output from the wind sector, according to Morgan Stanley.


https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-becoming-so-cheap-the-us-will-meet-paris-commitments-even-if-trump-withdraws/

The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy.
I covered this... EU and USA were already on target to meet some arbitrarily set limits (see the Paris accord thread). THe Paris accord was about bring the big polluters into the agreement: India & China. The Paris accord basically legitimized India & China to INCREASE polluting (by decreasing rate of increase..) while being paid by EU and USA.

So Sherlock, explain why this is a good deal for USA and EU if they were already going to meet the targets? This is why pulling out was the right thing todo as it was just a transfer of capital
If there was no need to stay in there was no need to leave. This was a blatant attempt to please Trump's paymasters and is another example of his corruption
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a need to leave. to stay in was to be subjected to capital flow from USA to China/India ... Now the EU were happy with that but the EU makes stupid decisions
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
So, by pulling out of an agreement (in which countries set their own targets, and there's no mechanism to enforce these targets), Trump flubs an easy win.

I'm sure he'll try and take the credit for the reduction in the future.

Quote:
Renewable energy is becoming so cheap the US will meet Paris commitments even if Trump withdraws

Research analysts at Morgan Stanley believe that renewable energy like solar and wind power are hurtling towards a level of ubiquity where not even politics can hinder them. Renewable energy is simply becoming the cheapest option, fast. Basic economics, the analysts say, suggest that the US will exceed its commitments in the Paris agreement regardless of whether or not president Donald Trump withdraws, as he’s stated he will.

“We project that by 2020, renewables will be the cheapest form of new-power generation across the globe,” with the exception of a few countries in Southeast Asia, the Morgan Stanley analysts said in a report published Thursday.

“By our forecasts, in most cases favorable renewables economics rather than government policy will be the primary driver of changes to utilities’ carbon emissions levels,” they wrote. “For example, notwithstanding president Trump’s stated intention to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, we expect the US to exceed the Paris commitment of a 26-28% reduction in its 2005-level carbon emissions by 2020.”

Globally, the price of solar panels has fallen 50% between 2016 and 2017, they write. And in countries with favorable wind conditions, the costs associated with wind power “can be as low as one-half to one-third that of coal- or natural gas-fired power plants.” Innovations in wind-turbine design are allowing for ever-longer wind blades; that boost in efficiency will also increase power output from the wind sector, according to Morgan Stanley.


https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-becoming-so-cheap-the-us-will-meet-paris-commitments-even-if-trump-withdraws/

The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy.
Our CO2 emmissions have been dropping for years. Unlike China and India who are allowed by the Paris agreement to keep increasing for another generation.

The Paris accords were NEVER about reducing greenhouse gasses, and only left wing authoritarians felt differently. You notice I said felt and not thought. Batshit crazy leftists do not think.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If renewables are now so cheap and inevitable, subsidies should be inverted into taxes. I want my money back.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
sugar wrote:
So, by pulling out of an agreement (in which countries set their own targets, and there's no mechanism to enforce these targets), Trump flubs an easy win.

I'm sure he'll try and take the credit for the reduction in the future.

Quote:
Renewable energy is becoming so cheap the US will meet Paris commitments even if Trump withdraws

Research analysts at Morgan Stanley believe that renewable energy like solar and wind power are hurtling towards a level of ubiquity where not even politics can hinder them. Renewable energy is simply becoming the cheapest option, fast. Basic economics, the analysts say, suggest that the US will exceed its commitments in the Paris agreement regardless of whether or not president Donald Trump withdraws, as he’s stated he will.

“We project that by 2020, renewables will be the cheapest form of new-power generation across the globe,” with the exception of a few countries in Southeast Asia, the Morgan Stanley analysts said in a report published Thursday.

“By our forecasts, in most cases favorable renewables economics rather than government policy will be the primary driver of changes to utilities’ carbon emissions levels,” they wrote. “For example, notwithstanding president Trump’s stated intention to withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord, we expect the US to exceed the Paris commitment of a 26-28% reduction in its 2005-level carbon emissions by 2020.”

Globally, the price of solar panels has fallen 50% between 2016 and 2017, they write. And in countries with favorable wind conditions, the costs associated with wind power “can be as low as one-half to one-third that of coal- or natural gas-fired power plants.” Innovations in wind-turbine design are allowing for ever-longer wind blades; that boost in efficiency will also increase power output from the wind sector, according to Morgan Stanley.


https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-becoming-so-cheap-the-us-will-meet-paris-commitments-even-if-trump-withdraws/

The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy.
Our CO2 emmissions have been dropping for years. Unlike China and India who are allowed by the Paris agreement to keep increasing for another generation.

The Paris accords were NEVER about reducing greenhouse gasses, and only left wing authoritarians felt differently. You notice I said felt and not thought. Batshit crazy leftists do not think.
why leave then?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read Naib's comments. He answered that question twice. Once in his original reply and again in reply to one of your posts.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump Derangement Syndrome
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Emmanuel Macron thinks he has convinced Trump to rejoin Paris Agreement on climate change

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/emmanuel-macron-donald-trump-paris-agreement-climate-change-us-rejoin-france-paris-bastille-day-a7844646.html

And Mr Macron said the US leader seemed open to reconsidering when they spoke during Mr Trump’s state visit to France last week.

"He understood the sense of my approach, notably the link that exists between global warming and terrorism. He told me he would try to find a solution in the coming months," Mr Macron said, according to le Journal du Dimanche.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you post that for us to laugh?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: [manbearpig] Paris Agreement Unnessary Reply with quote

Naib wrote:


The drive to a renewable future will be Obama's lasting legacy. I covered this... EU and USA were already on target to meet some arbitrarily set limits (see the Paris accord thread). THe Paris accord was about bring the big polluters into the agreement: India & China. The Paris accord basically legitimized India & China to INCREASE polluting (by decreasing rate of increase..) while being paid by EU and USA.

So Sherlock, explain why this is a good deal for USA and EU if they were already going to meet the targets? This is why pulling out was the right thing todo as it was just a transfer of capital


why do you care about China and India when you wont even commit to a target that you set yourself, with no mechanism to enforce that target?

If the accord was for an enforcable target, the USA wouldn't even come to the table (i.e. Kyoto).
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Link to terrorism?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what's the money flow for this agreement look like?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Did you post that for us to laugh?


all conflict is class struggle for material resources. Global climate change is a catalyst for change in material resources, and terrorism is a class struggle for these material resources.

The Drought That Preceded Syria's Civil War Was Likely the Worst in 900 Years

Quote:
The drought caused 75 percent of Syria's farms to fail and 85 percent of livestock to die between 2006 and 2011, according to the United Nations. The collapse in crop yields forced as many as 1.5 million Syrians to migrate to urban centers, like Homs and Damascus.

The drought had displaced Syrians long before the conflict began," said Francesco Femia, president of the Center for Climate Security. "And what is frightening is that analysts who study the region completely missed it."

More hungry and homeless families in Syria's big cities created stress, said Femia. "There are only so many resources to go around."

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
all conflict is class struggle for material resources.


So sayeth Karl Marx.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
terrorism is a class struggle for these material resources.

Eh?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
sugar wrote:
terrorism is a class struggle for these material resources.

Eh?


Everything must go through this lens.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
sugar wrote:
terrorism is a class struggle for these material resources.

Eh?


Quote:
It is a mistake to think that suicide bombers are psychologically driven by Islamic fanaticism. Rather, what motivates them to action is rage at material conditions of oppression and exploitation—which is then expressed by commitment to a religious outlook and way of behaving. Bombers are not some alien ‘other’—they are just like us, or rather just like anyone else who is moved to anger by inequality, poverty and injustice. This is what we know of the background of one of the 9/11 hijackers, Mohammed Atta:

Quote:
The grievances he loudly and frequently articulated against the United States and the Muslim autocracies that the United States supports were almost entirely secular. Most of those who knew him before 1996 stress not Atta’s religious piety…but his implacable fury at the plight of the poor and the indifference of the rich… He was bitterly angry at the visible juxtaposition, in Cairo, of extravagant and frivolous luxury with mass squalor and hopelessness. Egypt’s elite, in particular, was hypocritical, he believed. They showed a ‘democratic face’ to the West, while displaying complete indifference to the misery of ordinary people at home. They had sold their country to the West for trinkets.


http://isj.org.uk/marxism-and-terrorism/

in other words, all social conflict can be interpreted as
    a struggle for the poor for resources, and
    the wealthy using their power to both protect themselves and exploit the poor.


climate change, which is projected to cause more frequent and worsening droughts, is a trigger for this class struggle, for terrorism.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did we miss the request for help, 'cause it seems like they skipped that part and instead went to full boom?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Did we miss the request for help, 'cause it seems like they skipped that part and instead went to full boom?


Quote:
Faced with a worsening humanitarian situation in the north-east, the government
launched two drought appeals in conjunction with UN agencies in September 2008
and August 2009 to help finance a series of short-, medium- and long-term aid and
development projects. However, the 2008 Syria Drought Appeal received just 20 per
cent of the $20 million requested, while the 2009 Syria Drought Response Plan 43
received just 33 per cent of the requested $43 million. 44

The drought appeals primarily targeted populations of the governorates of Deir
ez-Zor, Hassakeh, Homs and Raqqa. Migrants to the southern governorates received
no aid from the government or international aid agencies. Moreover, the Syrian secu-
rity forces discouraged private Syrian initiatives to help the migrants. In July 2009,
the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) carried out an assessment of 25 tent
camps in the Damascus suburbs with a Syrian NGO, but no results of the mission
were published, and neither the government nor aid agencies followed up with any
concrete aid plan for the displaced populations. 45 Instead, migrants were
‘encouraged’ to return to their drought-stricken lands in the north-east, in exchange
for cash handouts, transport assistance or the promise of food aid upon return to the
north-east. Needless to say, few took up this offer. No aid was provided in the tent
camps themselves
.


http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00263206.2013.850076?journalCode=fmes20

it had been brewing for a long time.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam :lol:


Muso, you don't have to be in lockstep with every listed (and I will add, insane) position of the alt-right. You should try using your own mind, and adding a bit of pragmatism to your views. The really cool thing about pragmatism is that it works.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
Muso wrote:
Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam :lol:


Muso, you don't have to be in lockstep with every listed (and I will add, insane) position of the alt-right.


Considering that the Alt-Right would consider most of my positions on civil matters to be "degenerate", you're just talking out of your arse... again.

You, on the other hand, are in absolute lock-step with the regressive left.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@sugar

OK, so the Syrian problem. I thought you were referring to terrorism in general.
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