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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
a more general quote then

Quote:
The impacts of global warming fall disproportionately on the poor. The effects will manifest themselves in lots of ways: more expensive foods, a shortage of water, less fertile soil, and more extreme weather. Those who will suffer (and already are suffering) as a result are ordinary working and middle class people, peasant farmers – in short, everyone except the super-rich, who can always up sticks and move to a more pleasant climate. Although at the moment the effects are largely confined to the so-called third world, they are already starting to impact on the richer countries. This means that global warming is not just a scientific issue, but a class issue. The droughts and famines that ravage Africa and Asia periodically can be partly attributed to global warming, and we can expect more to occur in the future, as well as an increase in extreme weather like hurricanes.


http://www.marxist.com/global-warming-marxist-perspective.htm
Sure, Marx has a theory. But no terrorism events today are directly attributable to climate change. ISIS isn't blaming lack of aid for drought issues. Neither did bin Laden. Maybe the Syrian problem has a connection, but that seems more of a civil war scenario. Seems like a pretty big leap to associate terrorism with climate change with actions by people who are using religious extremism as the basis of their deeds.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
It didn't force anyone to do anything or allow/disallow anything. A country sets its own targets, and they arent enforceable.

If it sounds fucking weak, it is. Its the only way we could get the US to the negotiations.
I believe you asserted that everyone was meeting expectations, correct? The US, China, India? If expectations are met, then the US didn't need to be involved with negotiations. And certainly the climate welfare payout by the US was of no benefit to the climate since there were no obligatiins or accountability. As a tax payer, I'm not seeing why the US should have been writing checks, so backing out was the appropriate action.

Honestly, I can see only one benefit to the sham of this kind of "negotiating." To get the parties used to having a dialogue on the subject so that when enforceable goals become needed, there might be an increased willingness to meaningfully agree. That said, the timeline until it is too late doesn't seem to allow for unenforceable goals.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a bunch of feelings. Sorry, but the world is more than that. Actually, feelings is a luxury. Not many beings on this planet can resort to feelings when doing decisions between life and death.
I'm sorry if I hurt any ones. This world is bound in rational ways with a pinch of feelings for humans mentally 'feel good' minds. We are still social, or something in those lines...so I'm fucked.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the Human condition is having feelings. Everyone, not just some or exclusive of some.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not disagree. It's the feeble side of mankind, is all. World is rough.
EDIT: Lets put it like this, if I like: Rationalize an action then implement feelings on it. Easy? I think not! Because we are humans....and feelings is still a luxury item few can act upon because they feel offended.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this still being discussed... It has already been shown the Paris Accord has little to do with climate
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My pun at media, politics and media science. Yeah, it will all come clear to you in a way Sugar wanted it to, but in a different way.

The monumental thing is, when mainstream gets screwed, all gets fucked up, like in this video. That is, that this is one of the voices the grey will probably listen to, because I do, and gets afraid for doing so.

EDIT: I find it have to do why people voted for a mediochre, honest president. Maybe not totally honest at acting like one too.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Why is this still being discussed... It has already been shown the Paris Accord has little to do with climate
Welcome to the Gentoo forum newcomer! Watch your step, there be fans of gladiator movies here.


patrix_neo wrote:
I do not disagree. It's the feeble side of mankind, is all. World is rough.
EDIT: Lets put it like this, if I like: Rationalize an action then implement feelings on it. Easy? I think not! Because we are humans....and feelings is still a luxury item few can act upon because they feel offended.
Vulcans are fictional.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
Why is this still being discussed... It has already been shown the Paris Accord has little to do with climate
Welcome to the Gentoo forum newcomer! Watch your step, there be fans of gladiator movies here.


patrix_neo wrote:
I do not disagree. It's the feeble side of mankind, is all. World is rough.
EDIT: Lets put it like this, if I like: Rationalize an action then implement feelings on it. Easy? I think not! Because we are humans....and feelings is still a luxury item few can act upon because they feel offended.
Vulcans are fictional.


But aren't SJW and ANTIFA real too? (etc)...oh wait. :oops:

pjp - sometimes you outshine yourself (Naib comment)!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SJWs are the result of brainwashing. Antifas appear to be a subset of SJWs, or perhaps a sister group. Neither are "poor," which would seem to be a requirement for "Actually, feelings is a luxury. Not many beings on this planet can resort to feelings when doing decisions between life and death." SJWs are wealthy in that all of their basic needs are met. They do not have day-to-day life and death decisions. They choose between $10 coffee or $10 avocado toast while whining about equitable outcomes and having to pay the debt they chose and trying to avoid becoming adults / accepting responsibility for themselves.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
SJWs are the result of brainwashing. Antifas appear to be a subset of SJWs, or perhaps a sister group. Neither are "poor," which would seem to be a requirement for "Actually, feelings is a luxury. Not many beings on this planet can resort to feelings when doing decisions between life and death." SJWs are wealthy in that all of their basic needs are met. They do not have day-to-day life and death decisions. They choose between $10 coffee or $10 avocado toast while whining about equitable outcomes and having to pay the debt they chose and trying to avoid becoming adults / accepting responsibility for themselves.


Lets go with that. I'm all a board! But still, that's the people way, lets make a NWO instead, where we do it right!
EDIT: And the rich still make the rules.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naturally.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naturally.


As long they are proportional within a country, I am ok. But...heeey-oh-hooow. I think it's gone off the orbit of the athmosphere.
Why else would it be a globalization? You understand me there?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the stuff in this thread is priceless, especially about China doing good in the emissions category, except that the last time I went to Beijing I couldn't even see the sky because it was completely smogged over. That was seventeen years ago, however, so I'm sure it must be much better now.

sugar also said that Trump had an open goal and didn't shoot. I'm confused as to what would be gained in this case by shooting the ball in the first place.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
sugar also said that Trump had an open goal and didn't shoot. I'm confused as to what would be gained in this case by shooting the ball in the first place.


No gains, at all. Just a massive transfer of wealth from the US taxpayers to China & India... oh, and it also pushed feminism.

So, bullet dodged. 8)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Just a massive transfer of wealth from the US taxpayers to China...
That's already occurred, China already owns you.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Muso wrote:
Just a massive transfer of wealth from the US taxpayers to China...
That's already occurred, China already owns you.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

You need to study your maths better.

As of April of this year, China owns $1.092 trillion of US debt. US economy in 2016 was $18.46 trillion. 2017 is growing faster than 2016.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Some of the stuff in this thread is priceless, especially about China doing good in the emissions category, except that the last time I went to Beijing I couldn't even see the sky because it was completely smogged over. That was seventeen years ago, however, so I'm sure it must be much better now.

sugar also said that Trump had an open goal and didn't shoot. I'm confused as to what would be gained in this case by shooting the ball in the first place.


so he can sit there and say 'we met our Paris Accord commitments and it was all because of me and my policy' instead of the USA meeting them and someone else like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk etc walking in and pushing the narrative saying that "despite Trump we were able to do the job ourselves".
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
so he can sit there and say 'we met our Paris Accord commitments and it was all because of me and my policy' instead of the USA meeting them and someone else like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk etc walking in and pushing the narrative saying that "despite Trump we were able to do the job ourselves".

That would make sense if you were talking to a liberal. I am not a liberal. I think ultimate victory comes when the private sector regulates itself, if by market forces than by nothing else.

So if Musk and friends say, "We had to do the job ourselves," that is the way it should be.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
Some of the stuff in this thread is priceless, especially about China doing good in the emissions category, except that the last time I went to Beijing I couldn't even see the sky because it was completely smogged over. That was seventeen years ago, however, so I'm sure it must be much better now.

sugar also said that Trump had an open goal and didn't shoot. I'm confused as to what would be gained in this case by shooting the ball in the first place.


so he can sit there and say 'we met our Paris Accord commitments and it was all because of me and my policy' instead of the USA meeting them and someone else like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk etc walking in and pushing the narrative saying that "despite Trump we were able to do the job ourselves".
You are hopeless. Your first feeling is to look to the authoritarian state for all your solutions and answers.

What about people just doing the right thing without people like you threatening us with a gun to our heads to force conformity to the regressive left's newest fad. Once people looked to family and neighbors. Now the beta males have taken over, everyone must look to the authoritarian state.

Pitiful.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
You are hopeless. Your first feeling is to look to the authoritarian state for all your solutions and answers.

What about people just doing the right thing without people like you threatening us with a gun to our heads to force conformity to the regressive left's newest fad. Once people looked to family and neighbors. Now the beta males have taken over, everyone must look to the authoritarian state.

Pitiful.


*facepalm*

how is it authoritarian if there's no mechanism for enforcement?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Sure, Marx has a theory. But no terrorism events today are directly attributable to climate change. ISIS isn't blaming lack of aid for drought issues. Neither did bin Laden. Maybe the Syrian problem has a connection, but that seems more of a civil war scenario. Seems like a pretty big leap to associate terrorism with climate change with actions by people who are using religious extremism as the basis of their deeds.


I just want to make clear that Marx isn't saying climate change was the cause of social conflict, competition for resources is. And climate change is stretching resources like food and water.

Quote:
Those “resource” tensions will shake and scar an increasingly thirsty and crowded planet long after every current political career has closed. In bits and pieces, evidence for the links between political instability, mass migration and environmental crisis has mounted for more than a decade. In March, these once-speculative debates reached some front pages. A US study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences connected the unprecedented stretch of drought in Syria between 2006 and 2010 to rural depopulation, an upsurge of social and sectarian unrest in fast-expanding cities, and the outbreak of revolt against Bashar al-Assad.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/war-famine-and-drought-the-unholy-trinity-changing-our-world-10202751.html
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
pjp wrote:
Sure, Marx has a theory. But no terrorism events today are directly attributable to climate change. ISIS isn't blaming lack of aid for drought issues. Neither did bin Laden. Maybe the Syrian problem has a connection, but that seems more of a civil war scenario. Seems like a pretty big leap to associate terrorism with climate change with actions by people who are using religious extremism as the basis of their deeds.


I just want to make clear that Marx isn't saying climate change was the cause of social conflict, competition for resources is. And climate change is stretching resources like food and water.

Quote:
Those “resource” tensions will shake and scar an increasingly thirsty and crowded planet long after every current political career has closed. In bits and pieces, evidence for the links between political instability, mass migration and environmental crisis has mounted for more than a decade. In March, these once-speculative debates reached some front pages. A US study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences connected the unprecedented stretch of drought in Syria between 2006 and 2010 to rural depopulation, an upsurge of social and sectarian unrest in fast-expanding cities, and the outbreak of revolt against Bashar al-Assad.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/war-famine-and-drought-the-unholy-trinity-changing-our-world-10202751.html
Point of clarification duly noted. I don't believe I interpereted your comments to mean Marx was making a direct correlation, but I did interpret an indirect correlation. I don't believe that changes anything related to my previous comments.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
sugar wrote:
pjp wrote:
Sure, Marx has a theory. But no terrorism events today are directly attributable to climate change. ISIS isn't blaming lack of aid for drought issues. Neither did bin Laden. Maybe the Syrian problem has a connection, but that seems more of a civil war scenario. Seems like a pretty big leap to associate terrorism with climate change with actions by people who are using religious extremism as the basis of their deeds.


I just want to make clear that Marx isn't saying climate change was the cause of social conflict, competition for resources is. And climate change is stretching resources like food and water.

Quote:
Those “resource” tensions will shake and scar an increasingly thirsty and crowded planet long after every current political career has closed. In bits and pieces, evidence for the links between political instability, mass migration and environmental crisis has mounted for more than a decade. In March, these once-speculative debates reached some front pages. A US study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences connected the unprecedented stretch of drought in Syria between 2006 and 2010 to rural depopulation, an upsurge of social and sectarian unrest in fast-expanding cities, and the outbreak of revolt against Bashar al-Assad.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/war-famine-and-drought-the-unholy-trinity-changing-our-world-10202751.html
Point of clarification duly noted. I don't believe I interpereted your comments to mean Marx was making a direct correlation, but I did interpret an indirect correlation. I don't believe that changes anything related to my previous comments.


so, even with an indirect correlation, more extreme weather due to climate change will strain resources, which will increase conflict and terrorist activity globally?

you don't think there's a connection between resource strain and terrorism?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syria is one area you mentioned. That seems more of a civil war than terrorism.

ISIS does not seem at all interested in climate matters. Am I forgetting any major events? The club attacks don't seem related to climate, neither did the Boston marathon bombing. Nor any similar events I can recall in recent years throughout Europe.

Are any of those incidents ones you're claiming are related to climate change? I've heard nothing about the terrorists using climate change as an excuse. Does this go back to the 70s? Earlier?
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