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Muso
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: [ManBearPig] Artificial adjustments in data Reply with quote

Study Finds Temperature Adjustments Account For ‘Nearly All Of The Warming’ In Climate Data

Quote:
Climate scientists often apply adjustments to surface temperature thermometers to account for “biases” in the data. The new study doesn’t question the adjustments themselves but notes nearly all of them increase the warming trend.

Basically, “cyclical pattern in the earlier reported data has very nearly been ‘adjusted’ out” of temperature readings taken from weather stations, buoys, ships and other sources.

In fact, almost all the surface temperature warming adjustments cool past temperatures and warm more current records, increasing the warming trend, according to the study’s authors.

“Nearly all of the warming they are now showing are in the adjustments,” Meteorologist Joe D’Aleo, a study co-author, told The Daily Caller News Foundation in an interview. “Each dataset pushed down the 1940s warming and pushed up the current warming.”

“You would think that when you make adjustments you’d sometimes get warming and sometimes get cooling. That’s almost never happened,” said D’Aleo, who co-authored the study with statistician James Wallace and Cato Institute climate scientist Craig Idso.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fake news.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: [ManBearPig] Artificial adjustments in data Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Study Finds Temperature Adjustments Account For ‘Nearly All Of The Warming’ In Climate Data

Good grief. Did you actually read the referenced report? It appears to be something that a fourth grader would whip up the night before his paper on climate was due. There is no evidence of anything, just a bunch of random charts pasted into a pdf, with some dramatic conclusions written around them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All 17 intelligence agencies conclude that global warming is caused by human activity.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
All 17 intelligence agencies conclude that global warming is caused by human activity.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly. You have to be some kind of idiot to not understand how humans have increased the average temperature of the earth. Even if you disagree with the exact amount and how the funding for the underlying science is made (both valid arguments) two things are irrefutable:

1) certain gases hold heat in the atmosphere (greenhouse gases)
2) since the start of the industrial revolution we have been pumping more and more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

That means putting [manbearpig] in the thread title does not show you in a favourable intellectual light

Secondly. The article and study are complete rubbish. Flagrant misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the details which unfortunately, like not having a decent healthcare system, is probably a by-product of the lobbying corruption in your political system, especially when you find out it was funded by these morons whose biggest donors are Exxon-Mobil and another group of morons.

Thirdly. Don't you think it's funny that once a year or so someone manages to bring out a hack study like this? Surely if 'global warming' is a hoax there would be 10 of these studies every day? The facts are out there in black and white. Detailed analysis can be made for 150 years and other analysis can go back millions of years. Of course the lack of these concrete studies isn't evidence to the contrary but it's a glaring hole that all evidence is on one side.

Lastly. Human created climate change is a fact, the discussions are how much we have affected the planet (1c more than the expected rise), if it's reversable (not for another ice age), how much it will affect our lives (you and I? Apart from skin cancer and refugees probably not much in the next 30 years). Anything else is flat earth and Eratosthenes would not approve
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what I hear you saying is that everyone needs to buy an amphibious SUV pronto.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
So what I hear you saying is that everyone needs to buy an amphibious SUV pronto.
Nooooo, amphibious Prius!!! One byproduct of climate change is that it has taken the electricity out of the water. Lots of hybrids should drive underwater to counteract it
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This popcorn tastes really good.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
This popcorn tastes really good.
you've missed the point. There are no arguments to eat it over. Global Warming - yay or nay is no argument. The arguments are how bad it will be etc
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Last edited by cokey on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Quote:
You have to be some kind of idiot to not understand how humans have increased the average temperature of the earth.

Thanks for calling me idiot. I will believe humans have increased the temperature if there is just one study that conforms with scientific standards and concludes it is so. So far there has been none. There is a pile of politically motivated "studies" with someone declaring " we studied and found ..." with no real proof at all.

But of course, you really cannot insult me. I take insults only from people I have respect for. Brainwashed trolls do not qualify.
If the shoe fits...

There have been constant studies, many are decades and decades and ongoing and release their findings every year. There are thousands of universities over the world working on it. There are degrees in climate science where every student has to constantly put them out. There are 623 open jobs just in the US for climate scientists. There are 62 PhD Climate scientist jobs in the US. There are thousands and thousands of researchers releasing their information in everything from arctic ice sheets to chaos theory.

The 'idiot' part obviously fits because you think there is going to be a 2017 3-page study in the New Scientist. It doesn't work like that. It's like asking for a study to prove gravity. They work on how much, how we can help it, how much it's speeding up, etc etc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an active resistance against any scientific opinion other than the officially approved version. How does citing agreement with that position do anything other than confirm the acceptable position?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Quote:
You have to be some kind of idiot to not understand how humans have increased the average temperature of the earth.

Thanks for calling me idiot. I will believe humans have increased the temperature if there is just one study that conforms with scientific standards and concludes it is so. So far there has been none. There is a pile of politically motivated "studies" with someone declaring " we studied and found ..." with no real proof at all.

But of course, you really cannot insult me. I take insults only from people I have respect for. Brainwashed trolls do not qualify.
If the shoe fits...

There have been constant studies, many are decades and decades and ongoing and release their findings every year. There are thousands of universities over the world working on it. There are degrees in climate science where every student has to constantly put them out. There are 623 open jobs just in the US for climate scientists. There are 62 PhD Climate scientist jobs in the US. There are thousands and thousands of researchers releasing their information in everything from arctic ice sheets to chaos theory.

The 'idiot' part obviously fits because you think there is going to be a 2017 3-page study in the New Scientist. It doesn't work like that. It's like asking for a study to prove gravity. They work on how much, how we can help it, how much it's speeding up, etc etc


So, gravity is proven science? Bad choice.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
cokey wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Quote:
You have to be some kind of idiot to not understand how humans have increased the average temperature of the earth.

Thanks for calling me idiot. I will believe humans have increased the temperature if there is just one study that conforms with scientific standards and concludes it is so. So far there has been none. There is a pile of politically motivated "studies" with someone declaring " we studied and found ..." with no real proof at all.

But of course, you really cannot insult me. I take insults only from people I have respect for. Brainwashed trolls do not qualify.
If the shoe fits...

There have been constant studies, many are decades and decades and ongoing and release their findings every year. There are thousands of universities over the world working on it. There are degrees in climate science where every student has to constantly put them out. There are 623 open jobs just in the US for climate scientists. There are 62 PhD Climate scientist jobs in the US. There are thousands and thousands of researchers releasing their information in everything from arctic ice sheets to chaos theory.

The 'idiot' part obviously fits because you think there is going to be a 2017 3-page study in the New Scientist. It doesn't work like that. It's like asking for a study to prove gravity. They work on how much, how we can help it, how much it's speeding up, etc etc


So, gravity is proven science? Bad choice.
How come? Ever since special relativity it has been known that objects with mass distort spacetime to allow objects to attract each other unlike Newtonian mechanics where objects with mass inherently attract one another
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they added cyclical variation back into the data and then said they couldnt see any increase?

Well that's fucking stupid.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
So they added cyclical variation back into the data and then said they couldnt see any increase?

Well that's fucking stupid.
I liked the "it kept going up so it must be wrong so we added things in to try to find a way that it didn't and then published that" :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
sugar wrote:
So they added cyclical variation back into the data and then said they couldnt see any increase?

Well that's fucking stupid.
I liked the "it kept going up so it must be wrong so we added things in to try to find a way that it didn't and then published that" :roll:


Yeah. Pretty much.

Also, it seems like two of the authors work for the Science and Policy Institute which is in turn operated by the Frontiers of Freedom foundation, of which Exxon Mobil is a major funder.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: [ManBearPig] Artificial adjustments in data Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Muso wrote:
Study Finds Temperature Adjustments Account For ‘Nearly All Of The Warming’ In Climate Data

Good grief. Did you actually read the referenced report? It appears to be something that a fourth grader would whip up the night before his paper on climate was due. There is no evidence of anything, just a bunch of random charts pasted into a pdf, with some dramatic conclusions written around them.


I looked at the report after reading your post, you're right. Looks like something a fourth grader would write.

I guess, connoisseurs of fake news are having a very good time with the report.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: [ManBearPig] Artificial adjustments in data Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Muso wrote:
Study Finds Temperature Adjustments Account For ‘Nearly All Of The Warming’ In Climate Data

Good grief. Did you actually read the referenced report? It appears to be something that a fourth grader would whip up the night before his paper on climate was due. There is no evidence of anything, just a bunch of random charts pasted into a pdf, with some dramatic conclusions written around them.


I looked at the report after reading your post, you're right. Looks like something a fourth grader would write.

I guess, connoisseurs of fake news are having a very good time with the report.

In a way, you can't really blame them. Why bother to try to be convincing, when slapping a few images into a pdf with a impressive title is enough to get you plenty of news coverage? And how many of the people that read the news coverage read the report?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: [ManBearPig] Artificial adjustments in data Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
notageek wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Muso wrote:
Study Finds Temperature Adjustments Account For ‘Nearly All Of The Warming’ In Climate Data

Good grief. Did you actually read the referenced report? It appears to be something that a fourth grader would whip up the night before his paper on climate was due. There is no evidence of anything, just a bunch of random charts pasted into a pdf, with some dramatic conclusions written around them.


I looked at the report after reading your post, you're right. Looks like something a fourth grader would write.

I guess, connoisseurs of fake news are having a very good time with the report.

In a way, you can't really blame them. Why bother to try to be convincing, when slapping a few images into a pdf with a impressive title is enough to get you plenty of news coverage? And how many of the people that read the news coverage read the report?


they don't need to convince, only to add some doubt, in the same way the tobacco industry would hire scinetists to publicly downplay the role of smoking in lung cancer.

Quote:
Similar strategies, like "Project Whitecoat," sought out scientists to defend the tobacco industry, especially focusing on downplaying the health risks of secondhand smoke. Another worked with Hans Selye, the Austrian-Canadian endocrinologist considered the "father of stress," to support the notion that stress caused cancer.


http://www.businessinsider.com/type-a-personality-traits-smoking-marketing-2016-8?IR=T
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
flysideways wrote:
cokey wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Quote:
You have to be some kind of idiot to not understand how humans have increased the average temperature of the earth.

Thanks for calling me idiot. I will believe humans have increased the temperature if there is just one study that conforms with scientific standards and concludes it is so. So far there has been none. There is a pile of politically motivated "studies" with someone declaring " we studied and found ..." with no real proof at all.

But of course, you really cannot insult me. I take insults only from people I have respect for. Brainwashed trolls do not qualify.
If the shoe fits...

There have been constant studies, many are decades and decades and ongoing and release their findings every year. There are thousands of universities over the world working on it. There are degrees in climate science where every student has to constantly put them out. There are 623 open jobs just in the US for climate scientists. There are 62 PhD Climate scientist jobs in the US. There are thousands and thousands of researchers releasing their information in everything from arctic ice sheets to chaos theory.

The 'idiot' part obviously fits because you think there is going to be a 2017 3-page study in the New Scientist. It doesn't work like that. It's like asking for a study to prove gravity. They work on how much, how we can help it, how much it's speeding up, etc etc


So, gravity is proven science? Bad choice.
How come? Ever since special relativity it has been known that objects with mass distort spacetime to allow objects to attract each other unlike Newtonian mechanics where objects with mass inherently attract one another


It was supposed to be settled science as that was the term used when attempting impose will upon others.

To continue with the gravity analogy, that means you can tell us today where a satellite inserted into orbit today will be in 50 years to the minute. Gravity is a known component in one, as the thermal characteristics of carbon dioxide are in the other.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
How come? Ever since general relativity it has been known that objects with mass distort spacetime to allow objects to attract each other unlike Newtonian mechanics where objects with mass inherently attract one another


FTFY. Special relativity examined relativistic motion through space at extreme velocities.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
It was supposed to be settled science as that was the term used when attempting impose will upon others.

To continue with the gravity analogy, that means you can tell us today where a satellite inserted into orbit today will be in 50 years to the minute. Gravity is a known component in one, as the thermal characteristics of carbon dioxide are in the other.


The difference is it's possible to account for all the pertinent variables in orbital mechanics. That's why making insanely precise predictions there is rather simple. We can't do the same with an entire planet's worth of atoms and energy exchanges. But we don't need insanely precise year on year climate predictions to recognise overarching climate trends and what's causing them.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
flysideways wrote:
It was supposed to be settled science as that was the term used when attempting impose will upon others.

To continue with the gravity analogy, that means you can tell us today where a satellite inserted into orbit today will be in 50 years to the minute. Gravity is a known component in one, as the thermal characteristics of carbon dioxide are in the other.


The difference is it's possible to account for all the pertinent variables in orbital mechanics. That's why making insanely precise predictions there is rather simple. We can't do the same with an entire planet's worth of atoms and energy exchanges. But we don't need insanely precise year on year climate predictions to recognise overarching climate trends and what's causing them.


It is an order of magnitude easier problem, yet the required inputs for station keeping are still not completely predictable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
yet the required inputs for station keeping are still not completely predictable.


They don't need to be to, again, identify an overarching trend. You don't need to know the equations for general relativity to know that if you drop something massive it'll fall to the ground. Not being able to predict precisely where Mercury will be at a given time interval doesn't invalidate that impetus.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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