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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Windows 10 hardware requirements Reply with quote

Unless I'm missing something, the requirement for UEFI Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 negate any older hardware which might otherwise be capable of running it?

I found reference to this not being the case for Upgrades, but what do they now constitute an upgrade? The last time I did an actual upgrade, the installation required an install diskette to be inserted.

Also, what about using Windows 10 in a VM? If I buy Pro and it won't work on the hardware, can I then instead use it in a VM?
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erm67
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try with a pirated copy first
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: Windows 10 hardware requirements Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, the requirement for UEFI Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 negate any older hardware which might otherwise be capable of running it?

I found reference to this not being the case for Upgrades, but what do they now constitute an upgrade? The last time I did an actual upgrade, the installation required an install diskette to be inserted.
How recent is this? I have a Windows 10 Pro license that I used to install to a VM. I'm not passing a TPM to it, though I am using UEFI. I installed a couple of times without UEFI. How is this requirement enforced?

Is this requirement asterisked? I think this is only if you want certain remote management features or Bitlocker.

pjp wrote:
Also, what about using Windows 10 in a VM? If I buy Pro and it won't work on the hardware, can I then instead use it in a VM?
Most virtual machines do not use UEFI or provide an emulated TPM, so I suspect yes.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback.

I started with Minimum hardware requirements.

Both items appear to be oriented toward new systems, perhaps from OEMs.
Quote:
3.7 Trusted Platform Module (TPM)

As of July 28, 2016, all new device models, lines or series must implement and be in compliance with the International Standard ISO/IEC 11889:2015 or the Trusted Computing Group TPM 2.0 Library and a component which implements the TPM 2.0 must be present and enabled by default from this effective date.

The following requirements must be met:


Quote:
6.8 UEFI and Secure Boot

Windows 10 for desktop editions and Windows 10 Mobile and IoT Core must boot into UEFI mode by default and ship with UEFI Secure Boot enabled. System firmware must be compliant with the UEFI Specification Version 2.3.1 or higher.


But since you mentioned BitLocker, I found this reference.

Quote:
BitLocker requires either Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 1.2, TPM 2.0 or a USB flash drive (Windows 10 Pro and Windows 10 Enterprise only).

Quote:
Secure boot requires firmware that supports UEFI v2.3.1 Errata B and has the Microsoft Windows Certification Authority in the UEFI signature database.
Unfortunately there is no clarification on whether or not TPM / UEFI are required if you don't want to use those features.

And this site references the Upgrade possibility. However, I think the Upgrades exclude XP. So I wouldn't actually be eligible for the Upgrade qualifications.

The obfuscation around obtaining a legal copy of Windows 10 seems unreasonably complex. I'm trying to give them my money, but they don't really want it :)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to say that I looked at BitLocker on mine and it wouldn't do it because it didn't like how it had booted. And it was with UEFI 64-bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hardware is from 2012 or so. An AMD II X4 with 4GB of RAM, so I think that should work.

Except that it doesn't have UEFI, and I didn't see TPM anywhere in the device list (I'm guessing it would show up as a device). I believe TPM 2.0 came out after 2012 (2014 according to one source).
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TPM requirement is only for new boards, maybe you can buy a TPM module for your motherboard if you really want a NSA backdor running on your PC:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H1.Xtpm+2.0+module.TRS0&_nkw=tpm+2.0+module&_sacat=0

If the drive is partitioned using gpt windows will only UEFI boot, it boots in legacy/bios mode only if the disk has MBR partitioning scheme. Make sure the disk does not hav a gpt partition when you first install.

PS I don't know how are you're doing financially, but, buy a Mac for a change.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/15088/windows-create-installation-media

I hadn't done a fresh install of windows in a years and was surprised to find this. It will create install media that is very close to current. Make a win 10 install thumb drive and go for it. You can opt to use the key later, it seems it was three days before it timed out. Quick and easy.

I went down that road because I had two different hardware issues on a new build and got tired of putting in the key with each install while i chased the problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Windows 10 hardware requirements Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Also, what about using Windows 10 in a VM? If I buy Pro and it won't work on the hardware, can I then instead use it in a VM?

I use Windows 10 Pro with virtualbox without any issues, but for decently work I dedicated 2 processor and 4GB of ram (my system has 6core processor and 32GB of ram)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
The TPM requirement is only for new boards, maybe you can buy a TPM module for your motherboard if you really want a NSA backdor running on your PC:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H1.Xtpm+2.0+module.TRS0&_nkw=tpm+2.0+module&_sacat=0

If the drive is partitioned using gpt windows will only UEFI boot, it boots in legacy/bios mode only if the disk has MBR partitioning scheme. Make sure the disk does not hav a gpt partition when you first install.
Thanks. I don't /want/ TPM, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a software requirement. I didn't think it was, but I wasn't finding as definitive an answer as I was hoping. It sounds like these were requirements for vendors to be able to say "Windows 10 Ready" or some such.

erm67 wrote:
PS I don't know how are you're doing financially, but, buy a Mac for a change.
The hardware available should work decently enough, so the ~$130 for Windows vs ~$2k for a new Mac seems a pretty easy decision. Also, I don't want to support a Mac. They're among the most awful user interfaces I've ever had the displeasure to use. I generally find the Weakest Link UI to be more difficult to use. Also, no pointing stick.
:steps down from soapbox:
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/15088/windows-create-installation-media

I hadn't done a fresh install of windows in a years and was surprised to find this. It will create install media that is very close to current. Make a win 10 install thumb drive and go for it. You can opt to use the key later, it seems it was three days before it timed out. Quick and easy.

I went down that road because I had two different hardware issues on a new build and got tired of putting in the key with each install while i chased the problem.
That's awesome, thank you! I'll have to try that with a spare drive.


fedeliallalinea wrote:
pjp wrote:
Also, what about using Windows 10 in a VM? If I buy Pro and it won't work on the hardware, can I then instead use it in a VM?

I use Windows 10 Pro with virtualbox without any issues, but for decently work I dedicated 2 processor and 4GB of ram (my system has 6core processor and 32GB of ram)
Excellent. I'm considering putting my Windows needs into a VM on a desktop and migrating my laptop to either Gentoo or a BSD.

Thanks all.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used this excellent guide (in german unfortunately) to clone the physical system of my laptop in virtualbox (slic passthrough and dmi data) so I can use my original&activated windows 10 in virtualbox, it worked for me and windows doesn't even notice it is running in virtualbox instead of on the real laptop:


https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Dualboot-Windows_virtualisieren/#Angleichung-Virtuell-an-Physikalisch

Maybe someone can point to a guide like this in english
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Translate may work well enough.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TPM not required. Bitlocker useless with SSDs. Want encryption, get self-encrypting drive.

Don't want UEFI? Boot the install DVD in legacy mode.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
flysideways wrote:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/15088/windows-create-installation-media

I hadn't done a fresh install of windows in a years and was surprised to find this. It will create install media that is very close to current. Make a win 10 install thumb drive and go for it. You can opt to use the key later, it seems it was three days before it timed out. Quick and easy.

I went down that road because I had two different hardware issues on a new build and got tired of putting in the key with each install while i chased the problem.
That's awesome, thank you! I'll have to try that with a spare drive.
Finally got around to trying it out. Picked up a WD Blue SSD and installed it. An older AMD system, but it seems to work. I'm sure the SSD is what makes it viable.

Then I noticed the price of Windows 10 retail 8O
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you need is a product key from old Windows.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reference? I read about free upgrades when 10 was released, but I believe those options expired in 2016.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Works for me. I've installed several this way in the past six months or so.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
All you need is a product key from old Windows.


I have one for 95. Silver plattered and all.
EDIT: It's /plattered/ an improved english grammar that will be published about....now!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would make a fine drink coaster.
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