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azor7878
n00b
Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject: Creating a high performance desktop VM hub. |
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Hello everyone!
So, I'm currently running Windows 7, i like linux very much but i can't give up windows programs and games. I can't dualboot, i tried multiple times but i can't be bothered to reboot like, ever and just end up running windows anyways.
But i finally decided what i want to do! I would like to install linux or bsd as my main os and use a vm to run all my windows stuff. As i said i like to game but i also use hardware acceleration in graphics design aplications so i would need a GPU passthrough.
I have a 4790k, gtx970, 16 gb ram and an ssd and would like to keep the performance as close to native as possible.
What distro should i use?
What virtualization software?
Is it possible to passthrough a GPU to multiple VMs running diferent OS's(not at once)?
Can i mount encrypted partition to a VM?
How would one go about doing this?
What about a Windows licence in a VM? |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| keep using windows, you only do gaming, and you have windows, why would anyone wants run windows games and graphic windows apps slower than in windows, do you think any VM can run faster than native? |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What distro should i use? |
Your favourite
| Quote: | | What virtualization software? |
Qemu can do that. No idea about others.
| Quote: | | Is it possible to passthrough a GPU to multiple VMs running diferent OS's(not at once)? |
Yes. A VM only uses your hardware when it's running. Power it off and you can reassign its resources.
| Quote: | | Can i mount encrypted partition to a VM? |
yes
| Quote: | | How would one go about doing this? |
Study hard. It's not a trivial task, and I'd risk a guess virtualization is just one of many, many things you will have to learn on your way. Good news is there are howtos, guides, and manuals.
Take it with a grain of patience though. Or parhaps with a truck of patience. You're gonna need a lot of it.
| Quote: | | What about a Windows licence in a VM? |
Even MS sales people were not able to provide a straight answer to that question. Somewhat interested lawyers suggested that "box" is the only option, though the licencing models vary between windows versions, and I didn't care to ask about the details when they mentioned it.
Fun fact: there is M$ certification path for licencing. You can become MS certified licence professional.
I'm curious, why do YOU actually want to do this?
@krinn, one reason is that a VM on linux host integrates better with your existing linux-host-based virtual environment, so you can limit processes related to maintenance, benefit from LVM snapshots, back it up with linux tools instead of client-specific agent, etc. There are valid cases. However, I also think Az is not so big player  in this market to benefit at all. Beside having a hobby. I have myself done quite a few useless things just because it was funny... or hard... or both, funny and hard, or just because I could. I'm repeating myself, aren't I? |
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Jara0
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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Having been in that boat a few years ago I would second leaving your gaming PC as Windows if the games are remotely resource intensive. I tried getting some FPS games going in windows VMs under as linux host a few years ago. Its just not fun having to hassle to play a game when time comes to relax.
Maybe the PCI passthrough is alot better now but it wasnt worth the hassle last I tried. Like you said you just end up spending all the time in one since its a hassle to reboot when you dont NEED to. If you have even a shitty second PC i would highly recommend using that to play with.
Have you looked at giving virtualbox a try under windows? Its free and you can use your gaming PCs performance to run a number of VMs simultaneously. This is especially true if your not needing X or graphical stuff. Hell i have a few old Dell's running 4+ linux/bsd VMs(highly recommend libvirt and virt-manager if you get a linux VM host going at some point). |
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Hu
Moderator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21601
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Wine support varies widely by program (depending on how crazy the Windows program's authors were), but when it works, it is often a better choice than running the program in a VM. Switching to Linux may or may not be right for this person, but if it is, I recommend investigating Wine as an alternative to using a VM with passthrough. |
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azor7878
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Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| krinn wrote: | | keep using windows, you only do gaming, and you have windows, why would anyone wants run windows games and graphic windows apps slower than in windows, do you think any VM can run faster than native? |
| Jara0 wrote: | Having been in that boat a few years ago I would second leaving your gaming PC as Windows if the games are remotely resource intensive. I tried getting some FPS games going in windows VMs under as linux host a few years ago. Its just not fun having to hassle to play a game when time comes to relax.
Maybe the PCI passthrough is alot better now but it wasnt worth the hassle last I tried. Like you said you just end up spending all the time in one since its a hassle to reboot when you dont NEED to. If you have even a shitty second PC i would highly recommend using that to play with.
Have you looked at giving virtualbox a try under windows? Its free and you can use your gaming PCs performance to run a number of VMs simultaneously. This is especially true if your not needing X or graphical stuff. Hell i have a few old Dell's running 4+ linux/bsd VMs(highly recommend libvirt and virt-manager if you get a linux VM host going at some point). |
| szatox wrote: | | I'm curious, why do YOU actually want to do this? |
I want to switch. I don't trust windows, i want to use linux as my main os becouse i'm a nerd and i like linux very much, i just wasn't abl;e to switch before becouse i need windows aplications, but recently i've seen a video where a guy had windows vm using a physical gpu under arch, the instructions howewer were for skylake and arch, i don't have skylake and arch/gentoo are a bit out of my league atm. I'm here becouse somebody recomended me Gentoo forums, i would like to run this under something more user friendly, like fedora, mint or opensuse for now.
Here's that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16dbAUrtMX4
| Hu wrote: | | Wine support varies widely by program (depending on how crazy the Windows program's authors were), but when it works, it is often a better choice than running the program in a VM. Switching to Linux may or may not be right for this person, but if it is, I recommend investigating Wine as an alternative to using a VM with passthrough. |
Windows drivers are way better, that guy is getting pretty much native performance on a vm.
@edit: this vid is from 2015, guy mentions that there would be some kind of automated/assisted method to do this in the futire, is that the case in 2017? is it still a huge pain or do i have a chance of doing it easier now? |
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szatox
Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Want to switch. Well, we are helpful folks, so you can hope for some answers, though you must know that gentoo is pretty tricky stuff for starters (so I do NOT recommend it for your first linux) and we have limited insight into other distributions. Say, we will definitely not beat ubuntu forums when it comes to ubuntu matters.
Good news is, regardless of the distro you pick you can still use arch and gentoo docs. The basic concepts are the same everywhere in this world. All distros have similar capabilities, the difference is how hard is it to get the results you like. Easy distributions put you on track in no time, but you will be struggling hard to make them run whatever way you want. Gentoo is damn hard to start with, but very easy to customize. Once you reach some necessary skill level.
I used to solve my problems related to debian using gentoo wiki, which was by far the best at that time. Currently arch wiki seems to be better.
However, for distribution-specific issues there is nothing like the forums populated with respective users.
Now, back to the topic of GPU P-T. First, make sure your hardware can do that.
Hardware CPU virtualization is pretty common now. Make sure your hardware has it enabled. And make sure your hardware has IOMMU enabled.
No IOMMU = no passthrough.
Also, you will need at least 2 GPUs. One for the host and one for guest. Currently there is no way to release and re-bind GPU in a running system.
| Quote: | | some kind of automated/assisted method to do this in the futire, is that the case in 2017? |
Dunno. You can script it though, so setting it up manually is a one-time hassle anyway. You sill have to do your homework to get it running. |
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C5ace
Guru
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 472
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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azor7878:
Was several years ago in a similar situation regarding a MS$ only accounting software that does not run in wine.
My solution was to install VirtualBox on the Win7 host, then install Win7 as guest and the accounting software. CPU intensive operations like re-indexing the database and searches where running at practically the same speed. Could not notice any difference with Win7 supplied games.
I then backedup the VirtualBox .vdi file containing the Win7 guest, wiped Win7 from the harddrive, installed Gentoo and VirtualBox. Then created a Win7 guest using the backed up .vdi file as virtual hard drive.
Be aware that you can't use 2 Win7 with the same serial numbers at the same time on the same LAN. |
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brisclan
n00b
Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| ESXi is a bare metal hypervisor from VMware. bare metal hypervisor means it's runs as the lowest level OS. look into it. you can run many VMs on top of it simultaneously and connect to them over the network using Vsphere from VMware. or you can use the original workstation ESXi is installed on and switch between the VMs using a hotkey. That would be your best bet, and it would help you learn the VMware suite, which is great for careers. Other than that, you can run noobuntu with virtualbox on top or qemu... or vmplayer if you want. |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| azor7878 wrote: | | Windows drivers are way better, that guy is getting pretty much native performance on a vm. |
Windows graphics drivers are better, and that's on the condition you don't use the equivalent binary blob in Linux. Pretty much everything else is worse to the point where major game engines (Source etc.) run faster with a Linux kernel - even with Wine in the way. |
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