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How dependant are you on X?
Gotta have the point and click
9%
 9%  [ 42 ]
Need the icons but I know where to find the terminal
32%
 32%  [ 151 ]
Isn't a background what I type my text on top of?
42%
 42%  [ 196 ]
I live in an 80 column world
10%
 10%  [ 49 ]
I don't even need text apps. I grep the mail spool!
4%
 4%  [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 459

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Sir Alaran
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing CLI-only on dual head hardware is just dumb. You need Xinerama/TwinView or else you just see the same thing on both monitors.

My one programming project uses SDL, and the other uses GTK. I can't even do my coding in CLI.
Blender, Gimp, and Firefox also require X. That being said, CLI is the best for managing files, running portage, and doing administration stuff.
Code:

assert(((GUI + CLI) > GUI) && ((GUI + CLI) > CLI)));

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Sir-Gentoo
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, didnt read the whole thread, but i think its like evrytime in life, you have to have a little bit of evrythin'. i dont like usin gnome or kde because openbox, fvwm or some like this rule much more, because theire minimal and functional but still nice to watch at. i wouldnt want to miss all those icandy stuff like 3dshadows and trasp. windows or cool wallpapers and themes, but i do like usin the terminal too, cause its just more comfortable when going through my harddrive. there are two simple things why i would never wanna miss the x interface : firefox and gedit. i just dont like surfin the web through links or somen like this, and nano or some like this is simply not that comfortable like gedit. ok, i know, some people gonna think, damn, that boy must be new to linux cause evrythin started with the x-term :P but whats about windows? maybe noone of us would use linux if he wouldnt have used windows once, and youve used the graphical interface (urghhh, luna, urghhh) too, so why hate the x in linux? its just a comfortable way for newer computers to get the job done.
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sargek
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: How dependant are you on X? Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
pizen wrote:
Can you happily live in an 80 column world or do you need point and click to feel secure?


It amuses me when people equate "GUI" with "less-capable" and draw conclusions that people who use GUIs must be somehow weaker because of it.

Command line is great for a lot of things. No question about it. But, for a fair number of things, GUI is the only way to go. Web browsing is the most obvious example. How about graphic design? Video editing?

Personally, I use the CLI for most of the sysadmin tasks that I perform. For day-to-day tasks, however, such as reading email, working on spreadsheets, etc. I far prefer the GUI.

Maybe that means I'm "insecure" with just the CLI. Oh well -- I can live with that.

--kurt


Bravo - I also get the impression that some people sneer at the gui, or at gui users. To me, that's ridiculous, and you should use whatever gets the job done. I too use the CLI for sysadmin tasks, kernel compiling, some file management etc. Whatever works. I sure as hell am not going to surf with lynx unless I have to...;)
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TenPin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use X because I want to use firefox etc. I have no file managers installed.

I'm very dependant on X because without it I wouldn't use linux for my desktop.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: How dependant are you on X? Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
pizen wrote:
Can you happily live in an 80 column world or do you need point and click to feel secure?


It amuses me when people equate "GUI" with "less-capable" and draw conclusions that people who use GUIs must be somehow weaker because of it.

Command line is great for a lot of things. No question about it. But, for a fair number of things, GUI is the only way to go. Web browsing is the most obvious example. How about graphic design? Video editing?

Personally, I use the CLI for most of the sysadmin tasks that I perform. For day-to-day tasks, however, such as reading email, working on spreadsheets, etc. I far prefer the GUI.

Maybe that means I'm "insecure" with just the CLI. Oh well -- I can live with that.

--kurt
Quoted for truth. When I need to do administrative stuff it's CLI all the way. For normal dailly usage though, I very much prefer having the GUI there, as CLI tends to draw in a lot of unneeded complexity for simple things like writing documents, browsing the web, listening to music, doing email and instant messaging, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all 50/50 for me.

J.
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widremann
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use CLI for system administration (although I do like porthole, at least to browse), programming, sometimes for email since both my work and my school have Linux/Unix servers that you can log into and use pine on, listening to music, typing up documents that really only need to be text and occasionally for browsing the web. I have installed enough that I could be mostly functional for what I do using just the terminal. Webbrowsing is still a bitch, though, since Links isn't near up to par with the X-based browsers. But for music and videos, at least, I actually prefer the command line. Then I can play music anywhere and the music player isn't slow to load/prone to crashing. With framebuffer consoles, you can watch videos too (although using aalib is fun sometimes).

I would like X better if they went ahead and fixed it. I know some of them are trying, but I think others apparently would rather it just languish. It needs to be re-architected badly. It could be a good system. Some excellent ideas are being thrown around. Now we'll see if any of them come to fruition.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: The uses of a GUI in linux? Reply with quote

I was wondering wether or not there are users in linux who work only with the command-line, and what they use linux for. Is this a large group of people? I have personally dumbed down significantly from working with windows, perhaps one of the reasons it took me 5 hours to install gentoo.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I start all my program's from the terminal (just because it's faster then clicking:p). I mosly launch programs with a GUI but I like to use the command-line too because you can put it in a screen and let it run on the background even if you log out + you can easely create new scripts that make you'r life alot easier, instead of clicking the same damn buttons every day:p.
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Toady
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few linux boxes - supprisingly most of them are CLI only - it depends what you are using them for really.

One of the boxes is a server at work - doesnt do much really just running Nagios and nTop and a few custom bits and bobs via PHP / Apache for network monitoring and a nice easy interface for people to use nmap to check out some of the local hosts. - There isnt any need for X to be on it - so its not - its that simple.

Then there are a pair of home servers (a pair you ask - well one is mine and the other is dads at his house ;))
Neither of those have X on either - they just dont need it so its not there to take up room. To be fair they dont need X for anything - they are running: dhcpd, named, apache, squirrelmail, mailscanner and samba - on top of that the usual things like clamd for mail virus protecion and sweeping the file shares - but thats about it - if I HAD to install a tool to make admin more simple I would maybe look at webmin - but personally I prefer to learn about the package than take the easy way out.

Then of corse is my laptop - I couldnt be without X on here as its my workstation. We have modular Xorg with the "kde-meta" package on top built from source not grabbed binaries - OK it took about 2 days of compiling even on this machine but to have the system the way I want it is easily worth that.

One of the great things about linux is it just works wherever you put it - but you should put some thought into what you need and what you want - and dont bother with things that fall outside of those two.

EDIT: for some reson (probably because I started out on the CLI and not in X) I tend to open a terminal to edit files rather than using one of the many editors - so even in X I still use the CLI alot because its so damn handy.
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Earthwings
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why filter by GUI/command line? Use the program that works best. Some things can be done better (e.g. faster) using some GUI, others using a command line utility.

Moved from Desktop Environments to Off the Wall (not a support request, not Gentoo related).
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runningwithscissors
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The uses of a GUI in linux? Reply with quote

basdirks wrote:
I was wondering wether or not there are users in linux who work only with the command-line, and what they use linux for. Is this a large group of people? I have personally dumbed down significantly from working with windows, perhaps one of the reasons it took me 5 hours to install gentoo.

Mostly sysadmins on specialised servers.
Most others use a graphical interface.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a graphical interface (WindowMaker) to hold several destkop of xterm (command line) windows. Firefox windows and other.

I always start an app via a command in xterm.

I do all file management (moving, copying, etc.) via the command line. Actually, I don't even have a GUI file manager install on my computers.

On desktop 1, I always have a few xterm su-ed to root. So, I can use them for admin command. Installation, configuration, etc.

You don't have to go full way one way or the other. Actually, for a big multitasker, it is probably more efficient to use the best of both. A GUI is quite useful to hold and organise several command line windows.

iTux
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d4rkwingduck
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find both equally useful depending on the task at hand ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My always-on linux server (an NSLU2) doesn't even have a video out. So needless to say I run everything via command line. I suppose in theory I *could* put X on it and do ssh X-forwarding, but it would probbaly implode the poor little thing.
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valkyrite
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both.
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Taladar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only use commandline on my servers and ratpoison with aterm to launch programs on my desktop and laptop.
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Bill Cosby
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my laptop I use strictly CLI, I use it to program and for scientific computing mostly (maxima, octave) and to read some PDFs, and maybe play some MUDs or nethack :D
The only things I miss is a graphics program for some of my program data, I use ImageMagick and it is ok, but GIMP would be better, but I dont have a mouse, so I am stuck with CLI anyway :)

But while we are at it, what's the best CLI browser to display html files, somehow I want something different than Links, but when you guys say it is simply the best than I might keep it :D
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im with earthwing and kal. it highly depends on the task. i installed tilda (the dropdown terminal) because it's so awesome, and alt+F2 in gnome opens up a "run" dialogue box. leaving a window open that you can't do anything in because an app is running through it is stupid and wasteful.
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Sadako
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to work from the console a lot (high resolution framebuffer consoles are brilliant), but now I nearly allways work from within X,
however I still use mostly cli programs apart from firefox and my file manager of choice (emelfm2).

I use control + space as a keybinding to open an eterm, it's really fast and convenient.

djlosch wrote:
leaving a window open that you can't do anything in because an app is running through it is stupid and wasteful.

Code:
nohup foo & exit

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Shadow Skill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use both I use gui file managers and mc on occassion (When I just want to move alot of files around just because dual pane is better for that.) I used to do alot of editing from the CLI simply because I didn't know that Emacs had a way of opening files that needed root permissions until recently now I almost always edit files from the X11 mode of Emacs. I do use Emacs or Jed (with Emacs emulation) when I am working through ssh though (I haven't figured out how to get tramp (The thing that lets emacs open files with admin permissions) to work with ssh since I don't allow root login via ssh.

Hopeless: Don't you wish emelfm2 was in the portage tree that looks liks a good program for batch copy move tasks. :) Maybe I should find some time and lern me some ebuild scripting.... :)


Oh and people dont forget to use gnu screen you don't need multiple term windows floating all over your workspace(s).
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rokstar83
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the most part it depends on the task. If i'm ripping a cd yeah I could probably do it via cli but grip makes the task a little faster. If I need to process a text file and change certain occurances of words i'm probably going to use awk or sed instead of some gui'd program. I'm also one of those folks that prefers to start programs from a terminal mostly because killing them is easier.

Oh and ++tilda.
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MM23
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a server it's really best if you're not running Xorg at all. Or even have it installed.

And yeah, I use a terminal a lot of the time, for many, many tasks, but the terminal itself is running IN a GUI, so I'm not sure if it counts for "not using a GUI".
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ColeSlaw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CLI for my 2 servers (on a "general purpose" server, the other a Mythtv backend)

Both have their uses. Most of the time I use CLI for moving and editing files, admin stuff, etc. GUI for web browsing, MP3 playing, video, etc.

Also, somebody mentioned "GNU Screen"? Is there a GUI version of screen out there? I didn't even know such a thing existed. What is it called in portage? I haven't been able to locate it...
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopeless wrote:

djlosch wrote:
leaving a window open that you can't do anything in because an app is running through it is stupid and wasteful.

Code:
nohup foo & exit

so lets get this straight...
your process
1) hit ctrl+space
2) type in: nohup foo & exit
3) hit enter

my process
1) hit alt+F2
2) type in: foo
3) hit enter

not only is mine shorter, but nongeeks will appreciate it much more. additionally, the programs that I run the most (firefox, evo, bluefish, gterm, amarok, tagrename, gaim, vncviewer, and gedit) all have shortcut icons on my panel.

i like the kde recent apps tray more as it automatically manages what you run the most (transparency is key... the user shouldn't HAVE to set up shortcuts), but i have other issues with kde that drive me up the fucking wall.

as much as you think you have the ultimate power with a command line, there are tons of things that you do repetitiously, and those processes should be hastened and made as transparent as possible. UIs should aim to reduce the repetitive things as much as possible, and most geeks have very little knowledge or understanding of this seamlessness.
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