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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ct85711 wrote:
For me, I'd rather have the cooler be rated for a higher TDP and keep the CPU at a cooler temp than their 60-70C (which you can almost bet you'll easily exceed when you are fully using that cpu).


Good point!
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AM4 boards are showing up for pre-order.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-am4-motherboards-pre-order-australia-prices-revealed/122022.html

Quote:
As far as availability goes, the online retailers in Australia claim the motherboards will be available starting next week, or February 24th to be specific. We expect AM4 motherboards to go up for pre-order in more markets by the end of this month, right before the AMD Ryzen family is introduced.

http://www.eteknix.com/asus-am4-ryzen-b350-x370-motherboards-price-listed
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Marlo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi@

Does anyone knows when linux will support Ryzen and x370?

THX
MA
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marlo,

It already does. You need gcc-6.x though, which is hard masked in portage as some things won't build correctly with it.
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Marlo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon!
Thanks a lot for the quick reply.

But in linux-kernel do we have the options for the processor and the mainbord?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think march=native will cover the Ryzen cpu, and i do recall some new gcc flags listed in gcc-6.x.x.
Quote:
Support for AMD Zen (family 17h) processors is now available through the -march=znver1 and -mtune=znver1 options
So I see no problems on the cpu front.
I'm embarrassed to say I haven't thought much about AM4 Mobos and linux support yet. I did see something about some more zen related patches being queued up for kernel 4.10.0.

Maybe some firmware coming also? I don't think there will be any major problems, as this has been in planning for a long time, however, I just looked around online for about 10 minutes,, and didn't find much.

Just looked at the gcc-6.3.0 man pages 341-342, and it makes me think we could likely at least boot any system built and running on a recent amd cpu/mobo AFTER moving it to the new zen/AM4 system:

amdfam10
barcelona

CPUs based on AMD Family 10h cores with x86-64 instruction
set support. (This supersets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A,
3DNow!, enhanced 3DNow!, ABM and 64-bit instruction set exten-
sions.)

bdver1 Original bulldozer

CPUs based on AMD Family 15h cores with x86-64 instruction
set support.
(This supersets FMA4, AVX, XOP, LWP, AES,
PCL
MUL, CX16, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A, SSSE3,
SSE4.1, SSE4.2, ABM and 64-bit instruction set extensions.)

bdver2 Piledriver

AMD Family 15h core based CPUs with x86-64 instruction set sup-
port. (This supersets BMI, TBM, F16C, FMA, FMA4, AVX, XOP,
LWP, AES, PCL
MUL, CX16, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A,
SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, ABM and 64-bit instruction set exten-
sions.)

bdver3 Steamroller

AMD Family 15h core based CPUs with x86-64 instruction set
support. (This supersets BMI, TBM, F16C, FMA, FMA4, FS-
GSBASE, AVX, XOP, LWP, AES, PCL
MUL, CX16, MMX, SSE,
SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, ABM and 64-bit in-
struction set extensions.

bdver4 Excavator

AMD Family 15h core based CPUs with x86-64 instruction set
support. (This supersets BMI, BMI2, TBM, F16C, FMA, FMA4,
FSGSBASE, AVX, AVX2, XOP, LWP, AES, PCL
MUL, CX16,
MOVBE, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4A, SSSE3, SSE4.1,
SSE4.2, ABM and 64-bit instruction set extensions.

znver1
AMD Family 17h core based CPUs with x86-64 instruction set
support. (This supersets BMI, BMI2, F16C, FMA, FSGSBASE,
AVX, AVX2, ADCX, RDSEED, MWAITX, SHA, CLZERO,
AES, PCL
MUL, CX16, MOVBE, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3,
SSE4A, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, ABM, XSAVEC, XSAVES,
CLFLUSHOPT, POPCNT, and 64-bit instruction set extensions
.


btver1 Bobcat

CPUs based on AMD Family 14h cores with x86-64 instruction set
support. (This supersets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4A,
CX16, ABM and 64-bit instruction set extensions.)

btver2 Jaguar, Puma

CPUs based on AMD Family 16h cores with x86-64 instruction set
support. This includes MOVBE, F16C, BMI, AVX, PCL
MUL,
AES, SSE4.2, SSE4.1, CX16, ABM, SSE4A, SSSE3, SSE3, SSE2,
SSE, MMX and 64-bit instruction set extensions.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X Leaked Benchmarks Analyzed, Faster Than Intel’s Fastest 6 Core (both the single and multi-core CPU-Z benchmarks)

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-5-1600x-leaked-benchmarks-analyzed-faster-intels-fastest-6-core

Quote:
Single and multi-core benchmarks for AMD’s upcoming 6 core 12 thread Ryzen 5 1600X have just been leaked. This is the company’s fastest 6 core Ryzen offering with a base clock of 3.4GHz and a boost clock of 3.7GHz. It’s also a Black Edition, which means it features the amazing new “auto-overclocking” XFR feature.

We’re going to be taking a closer look at the Ryzen 5 1600X’s leaked benchmarks and compare it directly to the fastest 6 core, 12 thread chips Intel has on the market.

Once again the Ryzen 5 1600X manages to outperform every other six core Intel chip out there and even manages to close in on the $999 8 core i7 5960X Extreme Edition Haswell-E flagship. This is an incredible showing for the 1600X. Especially when we consider that it’s a $259 chip that’s outperforming Intel’s $600+ i7 6850K in both the single and multi-core CPU-Z benchmarks. It’s going to be very interesting to see how these numbers translate to real-world productivity and gaming performance.


Feb.18 new benches:
Quote:
Ryzen 7 1800X 95W @ 3.6GHz With Turbo Disabled – Outperforms Intel’s 140W 8-Cores In 6/8 Tests

AMD Ryzen 7 1800X Benchmarked – Giving Intel’s $1000 Chips A Run For It


http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-8-core-benchmarks


Yet more fresh benches- They just keep coming! http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-1600x-cinebench-r15-performance-confirmed
Quote:
AMD Ryzen 1600X $260 New Benchmarks, Matches Intel’s $430 i7 6800K
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 95W CPU – Slightly Faster, Significantly More Affordable, Than Intel’s 140W i7 6800K. AMD Ryzen Outshining Intel At Every Price Point


Feb 19- Most comprehenive mobo roundup I've seen yet. Lots of AsRock detailed info not seen before.
Quote:
Entire Range of AMD Ryzen AM4 Motherboards Pictured in Full Detail – X370, B350, A320 Products Ft. ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, ASRock Round Up


http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-am4-motherboard-round-up-msi-gigabyte-asrock-asus-x370
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
tony@X3 /usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo $ grep -ri fam17                                                           
drivers/edac/mce_amd.c:      pr_emerg(HW_ERR "Bank 4 is reserved on Fam17h.\n");
drivers/edac/mce_amd.c:    * The last level cache on Fam17h is 1 level below the node.
drivers/edac/amd64_edac.c:    * Fam17h supports scrub values between 0x5 and 0x14. Also, the values
arch/x86/events/amd/core.c:      pr_cont("Fam17h ");
Some changes. Grepping for zen got a bunch of garbage, except maybe some fixes for a laptop called Asus Zenbook
Code:
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK,
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK_UX31A,
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   [ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK] = {
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   [ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK_UX31A] = {
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:      .chain_id = ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK,
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   SND_PCI_QUIRK(0x1043, 0x1427, "Asus Zenbook UX31E", ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK),
/usr/src/linux-4.10.0-gentoo/sound/pci/hda/patch_realtek.c:   SND_PCI_QUIRK(0x1043, 0x1517, "Asus Zenbook UX31A", ALC269VB_FIXUP_ASUS_ZENBOOK_UX31A),
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not exactly sure what that output of your grep -ri fam17 command means, but at least we know some fam17h stuff is now showing up in kernel-4.10.0. :) When I compiled 4.10.0 I didn't see anything zen related in make xconfig. Guess they haven't added zen to the gcc-opts patch yet. But even if they don't, wouldn't "native" still cover it?

I had wondered about the "zenbook," so I looked it up and the Asus Zenbook is a high performance very expensive Intel i5-i7 based laptop. Nothing to do with AMD Zen cpus. If they somehow also have an AMD Excavator Bristol Ridge model on an AM4 mobo, I can't find it.

http://store.asus.com/us/category/A18489

Quote:
Premium performance
On the inside, the ZenBook 3 has all the components for top-of-the-line performance. Up to an Intel® Core™ i7, 16 GB of RAM, and 1 TB of storage is more than enough for daily tasks, and up to the demands of intensive applications. The third-generation PCIe x 4 SSD is able to read and write data at 1709 MB/s, which is a full 2.3 times faster than the MacBook. The 2133 MHz LPDDR3 RAM is equally speedy, clocking in at 25.28 GB/s, trouncing the MacBook's 22.35 GB/s speed.


https://www.asus.com/zenbook/global/news_detail.html?code=entry00
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some good news:
Quote:
AMD Ryzen Support For DDR4 Memory Speeds Of Up To 3600MHz Confirmed
It’s not clear whether Ryzen CPUs will in fact support even faster DDR4 memories than 3600MHz. What we do know is that at least one G.Skill DDR4 16GB memory kit (4GBx4) rated at 3600MHz will be supported right out of the box by BIOSTAR.


http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-cpus-support-ddr4-memory-speeds-3600mhz (has a good list of specific brands/speeds that the Biostar X370 Racing GT7 mobo supports. Hope the other mobos put out a similar posting)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait for Ryzen based APUs. Think about, the first revision or stepping also bugles?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMD Ryzen Officially Launched, Brings A Mammoth 52% IPC Increase – 8 Core, 16 Threaded Processors Starting at $329 US With Pre-Orders Today, AM4 Board Prices Detailed

AMD Ryzen Officially Launched – More IPC Gain Than Originally Promised, Highly Competitive Pricing

The launch of Ryzen begins a fresh new start for AMD by bringing a highly competitive x86 architecture to the market. The launch took place at a “Tech Day” event which was generally aimed at editors but it was decided to release the details to the public due to a great amount of hype surrounding Ryzen. Starting today, AMD Ryzen processors will go on pre-order through several retailers and officially hit the market on 2nd March, 2017.

This looks like it's really here, a bit early. :D Ryzen CPU Pre-Order LInks on Amazon (1800x 1700x) & Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113430 Plus 180 other retailers worldwide (said Lisa Su)
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-official-launch

AM4 mobos pre order: https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=am4&ignorear=0&N=100007625&isNodeId=1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And finally on the Gigabyte web site, however buried deep. Look under "chipsets: other"
http://www.gigabyte.us/Comparison/Result/2?pids=6166,6167,6225,6227

No PCI from Gigabyte but a board with TWO PCI slots from MSI AND with Intel LAN! Is the "killer" supported by the Linux kernel? Oh well, I do have already an Intel PCIe card. How about the ALC1220 Audio chip? ALC 887 is an old standby and is good enough for non-audiophiles.

If I do have to retire the HVR-1600, this card is supposed to be supported in the kernel: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DZSVLTW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2SM2N0CZN0R9S&coliid=I1W6XDPZGSQXY6&psc=1

I'm rather disgusted that one of the boards on newegg already has a 5 egg review even though it's only pre-order.

EDIT: B350 boards surprisingly cheap. I have no need for fancy graphics. $600 for an 1800X and mobo. Less than many Intel chips alone. But not offered with cooler so I guess it's the $100 Noctua after all.

EDIT2: Corrected tv card model number.

EDIT3: Gigabyte now has AM4 fully integrated into their website. I see nothing at the MSI & Biostar websites
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the newegg site, these AsRock boards have the very detailed specs fully listed under the specs tab, but biostar and others only have a bare minimum shown. It looks like it's still hit or miss on getting the full picture on some brands- even at their own web sites. Links for each AsRock for convenience:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157759&cm_re=pre_order_asrock_am4-_-13-157-759-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157757&cm_re=pre_order_asrock_am4-_-13-157-757-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157756&cm_re=pre_order_asrock_am4-_-13-157-756-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157761&cm_re=pre_order_asrock_am4-_-13-157-761-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157758&cm_re=pre_order_asrock_am4-_-13-157-758-_-Product

FWIW, I've built with a few AsRock boards in the past, and they were aways first rate.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700-overclocked-4ghz

Some independent testing is now coming in, and it looks very encouraging.

Quote:
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Overclocked To 4GHz On All 8 Cores – Provides 1800X+ Performance With Decent Motherboards & Cooling

AMD’s most affordable Ryzen 7 8-core CPU has been overclocked to 4GHz on all 8 cores. With decent motheboards and cooling this $329 chip is said to be capable of outperforming the flagship $499 Ryzen 7 1800X and Intel’s $1050 i7 6900K.

Ryzen’s Clock Speeds Will Only Get Better With Time

One thing that we shouldn’t fail to mention is that all of the results we’re seeing, including the record breaking performance of an overclocked Ryzen 1800X is only the tip of the iceberg. These chips are fresh off the production line and how high they can clock will only get better as the 14nm LPP process AMD is using matures. It’s impressive enough that the company can already get its first ever 14nm CPU iteration to hit 4.0GHz straight out of the gate. It took Intel several years before its 14nm process was mature enough to produce quad-core CPUs that can hit 4.0GHz, let alone 8-core chips.


When you consider these are the "first run" of the retail Ryzen chips, the prognosis for future steppings and versions of the entire Fam17h processors portends a very bright and amazing future for AMD users.
Big Bang for the buck is apparently back again!

FEB.25 update: Not that I'm thinking of buying Intel, but maybe this might also stimulate some AMD cuts if it appears to affect Zen/AM4 sales. At least it shows Intel was consistently over-pricing its products for massive profit margins due to lack of real competition from AMD. http://wccftech.com/intel-amd-price-war-ryzen-processors/

Quote:
Intel Kaby Lake and Skylake Processors Get Massive Price Cuts By Retailers Prior To AMD Ryzen Launch – Core i7 7700K Up For $299, Core i5 7600K For $199, Core i5 6600K For $179. Intel Kaby Lake, Skylake and Haswell Processors Get Massive Price Cuts By Retailers – Team Blue Beginning To Feel The Imminent Threat of AMD Ryzen Processors


Here's a nice bang for buck chart( guess Intel marketing dept. saw this one) :wink: http://wccftech.com/3dcenter-ryzen-intel-cinebench-r15-comparison

Quote:
AMD Ryzen’s Performance/$ Stands Uncontested
Following an accumulation of performance benchmarks and pricing revelations, 3DCenter has published a couple of eye-opening performance/$ charts that showcase how much of a market disruptive launch this has been. The Ryzen 7 1800X, 1700X, 1700 and 1600X dominated the charts, offering unprecedented performance per dollar that stands uncontested at every price point.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, even though cpu-world.com has as yet no Ryzen info in its regular news, it does have a nice little feature where you can get a side-by-side comparison of any 2 cpus in its data base, which surprisingly does include some Ryzen info.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen%207%201700X.html (scroll down to enter the cpu you wish to compare with)

For example, my FX-8320 vs. Ryzen 7 1700x
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/986/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8320_vs_AMD_Ryzen_7_1700X.html

Also, I'm wondering about that with the new Ryzen threading (8c/16t) as opposed to all previous AMD products, would this affect our Gentoo MAKE_OPTS= setting? In other words, will the 1700x actually utilize -j16 instead of the normal setting of -j8 (or -j9) for the 8 core FX-8320?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944,

It all depends on what the new limit for throughput becomes.
I would expect to see MAKEOPTS increase though.

To avoid swapping, allow between 512Mb and 1G RAM per gcc thread. That is, >16G RAM if you want to try MAKEOPTS="-j16"
Then there is the phenomena called "cache thrashing" which you see when older but still needed data in the CPU cache is displaced to make room for new data. It subsequently has to be fetched from (comparatively) slow RAM.

There is no ideal MAKEOPTS setting. Test on a few things that will run a massively parallel make. Like the kernel and glibc.
There comes a point where bigger MAKEOPTS will slow down the build. That point is different for different packages.

One thing is for sure, don't build a 16 threaded Gentoo box with less than 32G RAM.
2x16G sticks looks like a good start, then you can add the other two later without removing existing RAM.
The prices make your eyes water just now.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy,
Thanks much for the info- very informative. I was going for my now standard 16GB ram, so your feedback in my case is really helpful. :)

Thought I'd add these relevant items I just saw:
Feb. 26- latest Phoronix info/discussion/advice on Ryzen kernels. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Ryzen-Newer-Kernel They will have a new round of testing in the near future.
Quote:
AMD's Ryzen Will Really Like A Newer Linux Kernel. If you are planning to be an early adopter of AMD Ryzen processors, you will really want to be running a newer Linux kernel release for proper support and performance.
So with Linux 4.10 looks to be -- and reaffirmed by this trusted confidant -- a good point for AMD Ryzen testing and usage. So far in the Linux 4.11 cycle we haven't seen anything Ryzen-specific appear to come through.

Simultaneous Multi-Threading is one of the new features for AMD Ryzen/Zen and will play a big role. For instance, with the Ryzen 7 CPUs they are 8 cores but 16 threads via SMT. If you care about multi-threaded performance, just make sure you are riding a newer kernel release.

One of the bigger focuses could be on the AMD Ryzen motherboard support. Some Ryzen launch motherboards are using the Realtek ALC1220 audio codec, for example, and that is support is only coming to Linux 4.11. Among the AMD motherboards using the ALC1220 codec are the Biostar X370GT7, Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5, Gigabyte GA-AB350-Gaming 3, and others.

Also, for those OC'ers this looks nice. I prefer getting a cpu that WILL OC well, but in practice I almost never actually do so, in hopes that running at stock speed will help ensure cpu longevity.

MSI AM4 Game Boost Knob:
http://www.funkykit.com/news/pc-computers/msis-game-boost-knob-allows-easy-ryzen-overclocking
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Last edited by wrc1944 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
To avoid swapping, allow between 512Mb and 1G RAM per gcc thread. That is, >16G RAM if you want to try MAKEOPTS="-j16"
Then there is the phenomena called "cache thrashing" which you see when older but still needed data in the CPU cache is displaced to make room for new data. It subsequently has to be fetched from (comparatively) slow RAM.
Interesting. I guess omitting -pipe could help swapping issues. But does anyone know if it could help avoid that cache trashing too?

Anyway... If you want all the performance when using -j16, you'd be quite safe with 32GB of RAM, while taking into account that portage temp is propably on tmpfs. Right?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca,
I think Neddy means the "cache thrashing" refers to the actual on-die L1,L2, or L3 cpu caches, which are of course defined on limited areas on the cpu itself. When those caches become saturated, the processor has to unload something to the RAM in order to free up room for more critically needed data when it's requested.

Doing so would obviously slow things down, being somewhat analogous to how RAM has to temporarily swap out its least critical data to a hard drive when it becomes saturated.

Given that the on-die L1,L2, or L3 cpu caches are finite, I don't believe that if they become completely filled and then need to utilize more critical data there is any other option except to swap something out to RAM, and thus free up space on a cpu cache, which would be "cache thrashing."

In other words, AFAIK there is no apparent way to help avoid "cache thrashing" once your on-die caches are filled, and more essential data is requested. At least that's my current thinking, but of course I could be wrong, as I had never thought about "cache thrashing" in CPU terms before Neddy mentioned it.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944 wrote:
In other words, AFAIK there is no apparent way to help avoid "cache thrashing" once your on-die caches are filled, and more essential data is requested. At least that's my current thinking, but of course I could be wrong, as I had never thought about "cache thrashing" in CPU terms before Neddy mentioned it.
My analoque here was that omitting -pipe would actually need less CPU cache, since the CPU doesn't need to keep all the required stuff in cache for all the commands in the pipe, but rather only for one command. This way only ram is "wasted" (assuming portage temp is on tmpfs). But I'm no expert on this low level stuff. :)
But I'd be intrested to test out that, since I have FX-series CPU where cores share certain caches, which could actually affect the performance even more.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca,

That's not what -pipe does.

gcc runs in multiple passes. -pipe tells gcc to keep the intermediate files (between passes) in RAM if it can.
If not, they are written to disk in the normal way. Using -pipe is harmless. Omitting it may cause unnecessary disk writes that may never be read, since the kernel will keep things around in buffers as long as it can.

I'm not sure CPU 'cache thrashing' is the issue it was when CPU caches were smaller.
It was easy to detect at run time. Packages built with -O3 ran slower than the same package built with -O2.
-O3 makes the code bigger to try to make it faster. Then the working set wouldn't fit in the CPU cache.
-O2 made smaller code but with more branch instructions (that do not contribute to code doing useful work) but the working set fitted in the CPU cache, so it was faster.
Modern CPUs do prefetch too, to improve cache hits.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great stuff to know about- thanks for all the input. I'm learning a lot, and am thinking more about factors I hadn't really paid much attention to.

Neddy,
is the cpu prefetch enabled by default, or does it need to be enabled in kernel, or somewhere in an /etc/ file, such as the kde prefetch is (was?)?

I did have the kde prefetch enabled years ago, but IIRC I read somewhere it could cause problems, and I think I disabled it at some point, but couldn't tell any difference in kde performance either way. Maybe my usage profile wasn't enough to push the limits, so I wouldn't ever noticed it anyway?

I'm assuming today's larger cpu caches would make cache thrashing less likely to happen, and thanks for the -pipe and gcc clarifications.

Guess we will have a slight learning curve on tweaking our settings for Ryzen/AM4 hardware.

Hope this is not too much off topic, but does anyone know if the cpu caches keep data loaded only as long as it's really needed, or has a timed limit as a hedge against possibly needing it again, or a strict timed limit for only certain types of data, or any other scheme(s) that pre-ordain how all this works in practice. Wouldn't all this type stuff be spelled out in the cpu instruction sets? (Obviously, I too an no low-level expert).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944,

The whole idea of the cache RAM is to be invisible and make it look like it represents the entire addressable memory space, so that a cache hit happens as often as possible.
A cache miss means a stalled CPU pipleline while the data/instruction is fetched from RAM, time wise, that's expensive.

Modern CPUs do program (thread?) flow prediction for pre fetch and branch prediction. There is nothing special you need do.

Some systems allow you to turn off the CPU cache. That's a once in a lifetime experiment because its something you never forget.

Cache management is a complex subject. Its not just the CPU that needs to know what's in the cache.
Consider the following.
The CPU does a write. The write is only in the cache, its not yet been written back to RAM.
Now the DMA system wants to transfer the contents of that location to disk. If it uses the RAM location, it will hold the wrong value.
Even weirder, what about self modifying code, there's not a lot of it around any more but it was popular on early systems to make the code more compact.
The CPU treats the contents of the same RAM address as data at some time and code at another time.
The CPU changes the data and writes it to the data cache (many CPUs have separate data and instruction caches) then tries to execute it as an instruction before its written back to RAM.
All these things work correctly or you have a hardware bug.

The Wikipedia page will make your head hurt.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info Neddy.

You spoke of disabling of CPU cache... I'd guess that would make everything much slower?
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