A shoppers dilemma : What can Gentoo do?

OverMyHead · n00b Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 5

Greetings all. I'm a Linux Noob who is very likely to be useng the Gentoo Distro simply out of customizability alone. Yet in this extensive customizability I suddenly find my brain oxygen deprived from reactionary holding my breath. So as per the title, I'm having a shoppers dilemma of "What can it do"? What is it? ... Repeat.

I ask because I like to measure twice before I proceed, but the Hand Book doesn't seem to have a list of all the things Gentoo can do. (And I'm really hoping that I didn't miss it in my search.)

Thank you!

Jaglover · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:14 am Post subject:

Gentoo can run all software written for Linux and Gentoo can teach you alot about Linux internals. What else you want?
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John R. Graham · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:31 am Post subject:

Two reasons why you don't need that list:

The very configurability you tout. If you decide it should be different, you can make it so.
You don't yet know enough to make intelligent choices from such a list.

Also, it's kind of like asking for a list of all possible chess games: such a list would be unwieldy. The Handbook describes a good minimal starting point from which you can learn to customize further. Best advice at this point is don't sweat it too much and get started.

- John
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Naib · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:45 am Post subject:

It can do whatever you want it todo within the bounds of the software you want to use.

Using gentoo won't suddenly make gimp Photoshop because gimp is gimp BUT if you want gimp, a specific version (even the live dev code) with something specific enabled you can.

If you want to use a certain library over a drop in replacement (ffmpeg vs libav) you have the choice...

You and gentoo coexist working along side each other for your specific means. This is in contrast with binary distro where it will let you do what you want with what their devs provided
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:50 am Post subject:

OverMyHead,

Welcome to Gentoo.

Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

Gentoo can do whatever you need it to do. I run it on servers, desktops and Raspberry Pis.
The hard bit for beginners is realising that Gentoo is a toolkit you use to make your own distro.
That means that you have to make all the decisions that binary distros have made for you.

When you put your own distro together using Gentoo, if its not 'right', (you won't know what 'right is at the start,) you change it.
It will be mostly CPU time.

Oh, you post here for help or ask in #gentoo on irc.freenode.net

Enjoy your Gentoo.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

OverMyHead · n00b Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 5

John R. Graham · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject:

I don't think we've quite made our point. There's nothing unique at all about the capabilities of an installed Gentoo system. The only truly unique features of Gentoo are its package and distribution management tools, which engender its extensive relatively easy customizability. Now, are there some non-distribution-maintenance related open source packages that are authored and maintained by Gentoo developers? Sure (e.g., eudev, openrc), but without exception these packages are used by other distributions as well. So, nothing unique to see here; move along.

What you appear to need is a good book on Linux. One such is Running Linux: A Distribution-Neutral Guide for Servers and Desktops.

- John
_________________
I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject:

OverMyHead,

The tools are the toolchain and package manager, the source code, the list of packages you want, the packages you need to support the packages you want and the options you choose to compile all that source code with.

The easy ones first.
The Toolchain, this is the set of packages used to build sources, including the toolchain itself. The package manager (portage) keeps track of what you have installed with what options, so it can work out what is needed to install something else.
Source code, with a small number of exceptions this comes form outside Gentoo, eudev and portage come to mind as being developed by Gentoo.

Now it gets harder
The packages you want. You need to translate the things you want to do into the packages you want to use to perform those tasks For example, Web browsing,
Gentoo provides

OverMyHead · n00b Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 5

Jaglover · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject:

If you will understand Gentoo just by talking about it it will be the first time for me to see someone to do it.
_________________
My Gentoo installation notes.
Please learn how to denote units correctly!

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:58 pm Post subject:

OverMyHead,

Your are missing the clever bit with Gentoo. You turn the list of tasks that you want to perform into a list of packages that you choose to use to perform those tasks.
You also choose the options you want to build those packages with.

You feed the list to Portage. Portage works out what you need to have to install the packages and options you selected and does the install.
If it can't find a solution, it tells you why not.

After you have things installed, you find out it wasn't what you really wanted :)
Not to worry, you can change it.

You will learn more playing with Gentoo that talking about it. Make yourself a VirtualBox Gentoo guest with a 40GB HDD and try it.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

John R. Graham · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:14 pm Post subject:

OverMyHead · n00b Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 5

Jaglover · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:36 am Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:13 am Post subject:

OverMyHead,

Don't even think about designing your install on paper before you execute it.
You will need to play with Gentoo a little to get the feel for it to be able to make some of your decisions.
Also, in the time it takes to do a theoretical design, Gentoo will change. It actually changes every 30 minutes.

Do a handbook install as far as booting your own kernel. Once that's complete, you start to make choices.
Until that stage, all Gentoo installs have a lot in common.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

cboldt · Veteran Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1046

The profiles set up default settings for installing and maintaining the software on your system. From your remarks, you are planning to have a more or less "regular" desktop system. So, the default settings should stay away from hardened system and embedded system (uclibc).

The differences, as one works down the list of "default" profiles, are designed to reduce the amount of manual setting of package build parameters (I think mostly USE flags that come into play as each software package is built). Since you don;t know what you want, and you don't know linux, you should choose a broad default, #3.

If you picked #5, your system would build with a systemd boot arrangement (don't worry about what that is right now), making the choice of some other boot sequence method (openrc for example, again, don't worry about what that is) more difficult at least. It would also boot with USE settings for the gnome desktop, making choices of other desktops more difficult.

I don't have the time or inclination to help you decide what is most important, or "the preferred flavor" for you. It takes longer to describe many of the options than to try them (not always the case, more below, on choice of desktop); and if you got 10 people to answer, they would argue amongst themselves about which is best. Eat in or out? What cuisine? What from the menu? How would you like that cooked? Side dishes? Any desert? No, I don't like ice cream, what else have you got? Any squash pie?

I am averse to systemd (think of that as not liking gin but loving vodka), and the bloat of gnome and KDE desktops. I personally run a fvwm desktop (by the way, the desktop is a REALLY CRITICAL decision for look and feel), and have installed XFCE desktops on computers used by family members. I strongly urge you to NOT choose fvwm. It is a tinkerers desktop. Fast, powerful, user configurable. If you want to play with both gnome and KDE, I urge you to do that from something other than "building a gentoo layout" with each, and what I am picturing is using a boot CD like KNOPPIX for one, and some other distro for another.

My sense is you are migrating from a Win 7 or Win XP environment, and are looking, at least at first, for a system that is similar enough that you aren't lost. I don't know the various desktops well enough to advise you there, check the "Distro Watch" website or do a google/bing/whatever search for linux desktop comparisons.

On top of preferences for desktop, there are hundreds of other choices; plus a score or two of NECESSARY decisions if you ant to have a working network, video display, printer. Browser? I use lynx and firefox. Mail reader? I use alpine almost exclusively, but have thunderbird. Mail server? (you may not want this, I do, because my computer serves my mail to my desktop reader, and to my remote tablet) dovecot. Mail delivery agent? (You have to have one of these unless you don't do any e-mail around your machine but instead "do it all" in the cloud"). On the "heavyweight" mail server, postfix. On the laptop, exim. You may want to use "text-based" applications. I sue lots of them (alpine and lynx are text-based) Your choice of text terminal is yet another. I use urxvt, many people prefer xterm. Do you want to "share" or "borrow" between linux and WIN machines on your network? Install samba. Connected to the internet? You'll want a firewall! Again, a dozen choices. And that is just a random "tip of the iceberg." Literally hundreds of choices. Do you like lima beans?

If you pick some other distro, like KNOPPIX or Mint, these choices are made for you. Makes it easy. If you don't like making lots of choices, then pick a distro or two. After you figure what (details) you like and don't like among a few distros, you'll get a feel for what (details) you like and dislike.

Quick pitch for gentoo ... I started with linux on slackware (remote systems) and Redhat. Installing new resources was tricky, and over time, the system hemmed itself in against being revised. I moved to Mandriva. Same problem over time. Somebody suggested gentoo, and I have been running gentoo for more than a decade. It in no way has "hemmed itself in." There are no "dependency hell" issues that close off certain combinations of choice. But gentoo takes a significant amount of work. I like it because I am fascinated by "how it works," and I don't like being shut off from controlling "how it works." With gentoo, it is easy to look under the hood (once you know how) and make things as you want. But it was not easy or quick to get from "no clue" to this point.

Gentoo is not fast food, or even restaurant food. It is more like going to the market and choosing ingredients.

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

OverMyHead · n00b Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 5

John R. Graham · Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:10 am Post subject: