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manojk83
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Need experts advice on Gentoo. Reply with quote

Hi All,

I am newbie and using Gentoo from last three weeks(Installing, reading docs and solving issues :cry: ). I am curious about one thing. Can we create installer of Gentoo after updating some code and UI , like distro?

I have one requirement, I need to install desktop of gentoo, update code of UI and add something new in UI and create a installer like other distro; Ubuntu, SUSE, Redhat. so, we can use that installer on other system and users can directly get latest changes without compiling and installing thousands of packages.

Is this possible in Gentoo?

I researched on net but not able to find the answer :( . Please help me.
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xaviermiller
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!,

You cannot create an installer, but you can build binary packages on a machine, then use them on the other machines, if the compile options are similar (e.g. use generic CFLAGS).

See https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide
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Maxxx
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo is a total customizable distro.
You adapt kernel to your hardware, and packages works only in the pc that has compiled them, with many options according to pc's hardware.
Moreover, the USE flags is powerful installation settings... you can choose the features that package you want to install must have.

Other distros have installer which work in almost all pc without setting anything in particular, and packages are standard.

Gentoo is more powerful than others.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manojk83,

Creating an installer for Gentoo is hard because of all the different hardware it needs to run on.
There have been several attempts with mixed success over the years.

You can make things easier to propagate to other systems.

First of all, there is a stage4. You make a tarball of your system and restore it elsewhere.
It requires a similar CPU on the new host.

Then you can build binary packages on one system that will run on another.
These binary packages can be distributed on a BINHOST.
These methods require that you find compromise CFLAGS to run as all the CPUs that will share the binaries.

You can cross compile things for a completely different CPU, if that's what you need.
Like building for an arm CPU on an amd64.

distcc can be used to share the load of building.
Cross distcc works too, so say an amd64 system can help an arm system.
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manojk83
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the reply from experts. It really helped. :)
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why you wish to use a "binary" installer, as Gentoo is a source based distro, or why it would be a requirement for multiple users unless it was for educational purposes.

However, you might be interested in the Gentoo based distro, Sayabon. https://www.sabayon.org

https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=HOWTOs_for_Portage

https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=En:HOWTO:_The_Complete_Portage_Guide


It has a regular installer, and you wind up a with "Gentoo" based installed system very quickly. You can then abandon their binary based package manger system, and move over to the normal Genoo portage package manager system and repos. In other words, you can install Sabayon very quickly, then migrate into a regular Gentoo installation. You would need to do some work with abandoning the Sabayon config scripts. etc., and then setting up your new portage & emerge system but it should be doable.

That might take more time than just installing Gentoo. :roll:

As Neddy suggested, the stage 4 method might do the job, or perhaps just installing a generic Gentoo (with lots of modules compiled into your kernel to cover all hardware) once on one partiton, and then making a partition image/clone to use for doing a restore on other computers. You'd need one for AMD, and another for Intel based sytems.

Then you could make a new customized kernel config for each system you desired to put gentoo on, and afterwards recompile @world using a custom gentoo profile and a custom make.conf file.

There would be lots of tweaks you'd need if the systems you wanted to install on were all different. The main thing about Gentoo is that you customize, compile, and optimize everything for your own specific hardware. Good luck! :wink:
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manojk83
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944 wrote:
I'm not sure why you wish to use a "binary" installer, as Gentoo is a source based distro, or why it would be a requirement for multiple users unless it was for educational purposes.

However, you might be interested in the Gentoo based distro, Sayabon. https://www.sabayon.org

https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=HOWTOs_for_Portage

https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=En:HOWTO:_The_Complete_Portage_Guide


It has a regular installer, and you wind up a with "Gentoo" based installed system very quickly. You can then abandon their binary based package manger system, and move over to the normal Genoo portage package manager system and repos. In other words, you can install Sabayon very quickly, then migrate into a regular Gentoo installation. You would need to do some work with abandoning the Sabayon config scripts. etc., and then setting up your new portage & emerge system but it should be doable.

That might take more time than just installing Gentoo. :roll:

As Neddy suggested, the stage 4 method might do the job, or perhaps just installing a generic Gentoo (with lots of modules compiled into your kernel to cover all hardware) once on one partiton, and then making a partition image/clone to use for doing a restore on other computers. You'd need one for AMD, and another for Intel based sytems.

Then you could make a new customized kernel config for each system you desired to put gentoo on, and afterwards recompile @world using a custom gentoo profile and a custom make.conf file.

There would be lots of tweaks you'd need if the systems you wanted to install on were all different. The main thing about Gentoo is that you customize, compile, and optimize everything for your own specific hardware. Good luck! :wink:



Thanks for such a detailed reply.
I never worked with gentoo and learning it , since last month. Also tried LFS .

Actually, I want to create a new linux based OS in which all UI text should be in Indian language only. The default localization in all linux flavour converts text at some places . I want to view native language everywhere in OS, no english text: all KDE options and application menus etc.

It may seems stupid requirement but I want to create a OS for the people with very less education or unable to read english in India, will use computer at free of cost and less learning curve.

I have never worked in linux development community and I am also not a hard core developer, I am automation QA. Don't know from where to start, lots of stuff to learn.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manojk83,

The localisation tools work. I suspect that translations are what is missing.
The default is often to display English if the messages for the selected locale are missing.

All you may need to do are provide translations and set the locale.

Research the applications of interest then use the tools that they provide.
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pietinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Need experts advice on Gentoo. Reply with quote

Hi Manojk,

may I ask you first on how many PCs you want (you have) to install Linux ? And the second Question: Why Gentoo ?

Before many years I did a rollout of OS/2 for 16.000 PCs (Client and Server). You have no chance to do a manually partitioning of every harddisk, so you need scripts for doing this. And scripts for copying all the (binary) system files (and so on). There exists enterprise solution for these needs in some distros (I dont want make advertising for them), but not with Gentoo. So the answer to your question:

manojk83 wrote:
Is this possible in Gentoo?


is: Theoretical yes, but you have to do all by yourself ...



(P.S.: Iam sorry for my poor english)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietinger,

In Gentoo, its called a stage4. It can even be done over the network with the target nodes PXE booting for the install.
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pietinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
pietinger,

In Gentoo, its called a stage4. It can even be done over the network with the target nodes PXE booting for the install.


Neddy,

thank you for your fast answer. I found even something about a "stage 5" (https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-534039.html), but nothing with a totally "non-user-interactiv" solution. I mean: When I have 10 oder 20 PCs its not a problem, typing some commands like "parted" and "mount" and "untar" (for example), but when having 100 PCs or more, I need a booting CD (or stick), a Server with all the software and a netwerk, powering on 20 PCs at the same time and waiting half an hour (or so) until they reboot and they are finished (thats why I asked him, how many PC he has to prepare; I had the feeling he is a project leader for helping many, many people having a running sytem).

Its some time ago, since I searched for myself a solution like him. So, if you have more (and actually) information, I would be very interested too. You said something about PXE booting (the same solution we had with OS/2), but i didnt found something for a complete rollout.

Many Greetings,
Peter
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manojk83,
I thought about this some more, and maybe you should consider simply making a customized respin of a nice stable kde distro's live dvd after you incorporate the language requirement you mention. A very good one is PcLinuxOS. I ran it many years ago before I took up Gentoo. It's a great binary distro, and even better now. Some links below.

http://www.pclinuxos.com/about On the website they issue monthly magazines in pdf form.

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0 the "remastering" forum for pclinuxos respin info.

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/ Great forum, like Gentoo's!

http://www.pclinuxos.com/community-releases

I think they include some tools for making a respin version. You would wind up with a language specific live dvd which you could copy use to install on virtually any computer.

There are of course more such distros, but pclinixos is well know for it's quality and being rock solid.

Oh yeah- now I remember:
Quote:
PCLinuxOS has a script called mylivecd, which allows the user to take a ‘snapshot’ of their current hard drive installation (all settings, applications, documents, etc.) and compress it into an ISO CD/DVD/USB image. This allows easy backup of a user’s data and also makes it easy to create your own custom liveCD/DVD/USB. Also, PCLinuxOS has additional support for over 85 language through our simple Addlocale interface.

You would install pclinuxos on your hard drive, customize it with your desired language, and then using the script create your own specific language, applications, documents, etc. version of the pclinuxos live dvd. It would function as an installer dvd and detect hardware, like any other install dvd or USB stick. Actually, I did that once about 10+ years ago, and it worked perfectly.

Would that be what you are looking to do?

I love Gentoo, and it's my main distro, but for your purposes its learning curve and constant and extensive compiling requirement might be unrealistic and time consuming for your projected users.
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Last edited by wrc1944 on Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietinger,

Scripting a Gentoo install, when you want to install a lot of identical systems is easy.
Its literally all the commands in the handbook strung together in two shell scripts.
You need one inside and one outside the chroot. The one outside the chroot can write and execute the one inside, so its one shell script if you want.

It gets harder when you want a general install that works for whatever hardware it finds itself on.
That needs error handling.

Back to the shell script.
That can build things from source, just like you would. For a large deployment, thats a waste. In any case, you want control of the portage tree, so you don't get different versions due te installing at different times.

It can emerge binary packages, which is faster, of even untar whole installs.

For updates, building and testing binary packages before they are deployed is the way to go.
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