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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have missed the debut of 4.17.0, but not by much. Plus, I am still on full speed internet_via_phone, so getting the newbies done went more quickly than usual. Not perfection, but at least one project today went well.

32-bit
64-bit

As always, enjoy!

Cheers,
Pappy
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
No. This is about simplicity.

While all those things have merit, it's not the idea. All one really needs is the proper basics upon which to build. make oldconfig is a very powerful command, and used properly, with knowledge of your system, you won't need to reconfigure things, except for when some things that were once hidden are now setable options.

I haven't had to reconfigure my systems since i set up iptables. The kernel .config I use now on this machine has a direct line from the first kernel i ever compiled for it. Things have been tweaked, and Gentoo itself has changed a few kernel settings, and all those have been incorporated into the kernel that runs the system even as I type this response.

So, while doing some of those things might make for great projects for others, I am simply going to update the preconfig whenever a new kernel family is released. Like I said, that will be around the time of 4.8.0. For now, the latest vanilla version when I started was 4.7.3. That is only because it's the latest version of vanilla from kernel-dot-org. That is the only preconfig I will be releasing for the rest of 4.7.x.

Like I said, "simplicity."

Cheers,
Pappy


Hi, pappy,

I'm returning to Gentoo installs after a long hiatus. I'm currently configuring Gentoo on 3 machines - 2 uEFI-based laptops and one BIOS-based desktop.

Yesterday I read through this entire thread, and I'm skimming over it now again, and I have a couple of questions.

These pre-configs are a base config that is different from the base config that gets installed every time a kernel is emerged, correct?

For a first time install, is it still acceptable to use these as a base, or would you rather my machines have their own first time fully manually configured kernels before attempting to use these at all (as in emerging currently masked kernels after setting up a worknig 4.9.95-gentoo kernel)?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johngalt,

The concept is unchanged since the kernel seeds project.
While the seeds there are not current, the method remains sound.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, thanks. I was under the (mistaken) impression that these were applied differently.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, in configuring the default sources 4.9.95-gentoo, I should search the thread to the links for hte 4.9.x pre-config?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johngalt,

That would be ideal. The closest to 4.9.95 is the one you want.
Drop it in the kernel as .config, then run make oldconfig.
Next, use make menuconfig to add your hardware. Its guaranteed to not boot if you skip that.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol - yeah, mmost definitely not gonna work if I don't do my own hardware in there.

Thanks!
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm going through the entire thing - would it be easier if I just searched for the various hardware I have?

for instance /intel, /nec, /realtek, /nvidia, /nouveau, /marvell, etc.?

Or just plod through the entire thing (my default methodology - kernel config is one thing I ma most definitely not afraid of).

Also, I noticed what to me seem like peculiarities.

For example:

Code:

#
# Partition Types
#
# CONFIG_PARTITION_ADVANCED is not set
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_BLOCK_COMPAT=y
CONFIG_BLK_MQ_PCI=y


So, based upon that setup, the actual 'CONFIG_PARTITION_ADVANCED' doesn't have to be set in order to enable any of the partitions underneath?

Reason I ask is that I want access to Windows Logical Disk manager - the desktop is a Windows box, and in addition to the SSDs, I have 3 Mechanical drives, all set up by Windows LDM....

I can enable the advanced, then enable LDM, and then disable advanced again? Or do I need to leave it enabled once I enabled?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johngalt,

When advanced is disabled, you get

Code:
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION=y
and the others off.

e.g. From the help on Windows Logical Disk Manager (Dynamic Disk) support
Code:
  │ Symbol: LDM_PARTITION [=n]                                           │ 
  │ Type  : bool                                                         │ 
  │ Prompt: Windows Logical Disk Manager (Dynamic Disk) support          │ 
  │   Location:                                                          │ 
  │     -> Enable the block layer (BLOCK [=y])                           │ 
  │       -> Partition Types                                             │ 
  │         -> Advanced partition selection (PARTITION_ADVANCED [=y])    │ 
  │   Defined at block/partitions/Kconfig:176                            │ 
  │   Depends on: BLOCK [=y] && PARTITION_ADVANCED [=y]   

From the depends on CONFIG_LDM_PARTITION requires both BLOCK [=y] && PARTITION_ADVANCED [=y] to be selected.

If you set CONFIG_LDM_PARTITION=Y then PARTITION_ADVANCED=N, CONFIG_LDM_PARTITION support will not be built but the .config system will remember the hidden and inactive setting.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh, that exlpains it.

I should have looked at that part more carefully. Thanks!
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first began the project, the initial .config file was a horror show with most hardware drivers and networking options set to on. The result was an ungainly mess. Sure, things worked, but there were also conflicts and other issues caused by the default .config setup. Those additional but unneeded options were the causes of numerous errors.

From that basic setup, I went through and turned pretty much everything off, then started turning things back on until I got to a place where booting was successful again. Once that was done, I did a bit more experimenting until I got a basic group of settings. When added to the proper device drivers, I got kernels that just worked.

I don't experiment as much as I used to because the basic seed settings still just work. I do make sure that the new kernel source continues to work, as I use the new source and settings on this machine. I don't release the new .configs until I am sure my system boots and runs properly. So far, so good.

Thanks for asking.

Cheers,
Pappy
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a related subject, is there an "easier" way to see the difference between kernel configs other than an actual command line diff? I tried comparing one of the seeds from a 4.x version with my config, but the differences were significant. I've also tried using two sets of "make menuconfig" and that too is pretty daunting, though I do go through that when setting up entirely new systems.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Pappy - thanks for the explanations. I've been wondering at a few of the default settings (Read: Amateur radio) in the last couple of kernels I've compiled.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Many of the settings I ran into in the kernel setup made no sense. And yes, the HAM radio thing was one of them. The biggest issues were driver conflicts caused by having everyone set to on, including drivers sure to cause conflicts with each other. I wondered at the time how any of the kernels I saw in the early days worked at all. The advent of the SATA drivers brought a whole new level of, "oh, shit". I can't begin to tell you how many kernels I saw that had multiple IDE drivers selected for the same controller. I wondered at how the system with these settings could have worked at all. Some actually didn't.

The seed concept simplified things greatly, and the errors caused by conflicts went away. I came to believe that it was, in fact true that a machine could run linux as well as or better than it ran windows. The seeds continue to show this to be true as well.

Cheers,
Pappy
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can attest to that.

My desktop, eVGA X58 Classified 3 motherboard, has both an ICH10R chipset for SATA II and a Marvell 88SE9123 chipset for providing SATA `III' (Marvell's is limited to 5 Gb/s, not full 6), but also provides for a legacy IDE connection. In Windows, especially with 7/8, if I did not install the ancient Marvell-specific drivers, the device manager showed the SATA `III' ports as IDE :evil:

Interestingly enough, there is a set of drivers for both Marvell SATA as well as Marvell PATA in the kernel config - and also interestingly enough, SRCD loads only the Marvell PATA drivers when booting on that system (and that interface is never in use - even my BR RW is SATA).

Either way, though, your pre-config rocks- it really kills all the cruft, and I wholeheartedly appreciate that. While I'm not scared of kernel configuration, it's been a while and there is most definitely a lot more there than there used to be lol.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my voluminous distfiles, kernel source ups itself by about a meg or two for each new tar.xz iteration. That translates to a lot more like fifty megs or so with the fully installed sources stored in /usr/src.

At one time, I had all the decompressed kernel sources from about 2.6.22 until I stopped producing the original kernel seeds on one hard drive so I could configure .config files for those that asked. If I ever get real internet again, I might return to that avocation. For now, I prefer the new simpler approach. One .config to cover one major iteration. It makes the whole thing easier and fun. Plus, it requires just a tad more understanding, and teaches the skill of working with the Linux kernel a little better.

Cheers,
Pappy.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed.

Funny story - I started looking at exploring Linux much more recently than most folks here - around the time of Fedora Core (IIRC). I tried it, liked it compared to my then WinXP box, and then tried to figure out how to make it work faster - and that's when I learned about what compilation really meant. I did all I could to make Fedora run faster and smoother, and finally, after compiling my own kernel, I had reached my limit in terms of what I could do to customize it for my use.

It was then that I was suggest to learn about Gentoo - back when it was a more hands on from-scratch distro.

Alas, my system was getting long int the tooth, and my new job required me to have Windows-based machines for various things, so after a few years I jumped ship back to Windows.

Now, I'm at a point where I know I can run Windows in a VM of some time under Linux more easily than I can run Linux in a VM under Windows (yes, it can be done, but Hyper-V is a PITA when trying to run Gen 2 VMs on a BIOS-only box - it just never has worked right for me), plus, my Windows licenses are digital, all tied to my Microsoft account, and I have 4 already set to run as VMs in testing a lot of things in WinX over the last few years.

But all this started from my desire to learn how to build a machine specific kernel so instead of having a 45 second boot time I could have it down as low as 20 seconds lol.

But, yeah, manually configuring a kernel is work - but it pays dividends (IMO) in the long run.....

Incidentally - change from a couple of days ago, but looks like that the 4.14.xx kernel is now default.
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If you want to retain credibility as a functional adult; when you are told that you are acting boorishly, the correct response is to consider that possibility and act accordingly to correct that behavior.


Amen.
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OldTango
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
On a related subject, is there an "easier" way to see the difference between kernel configs other than an actual command line diff? I tried comparing one of the seeds from a 4.x version with my config, but the differences were significant. I've also tried using two sets of "make menuconfig" and that too is pretty daunting, though I do go through that when setting up entirely new systems.

Have you tried dev-util/meld. Its a GUI diff comparison tool. I use it exclusively to compare kernel configs.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't, but thanks for the tip. I don't currently have an available GUI with which to test, but I'll make a note of it.
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johngalt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity - any particular reason this isn't a sticky-fied post?
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cwr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either by volume or age or relevance, it really ought to be sticky.

Will
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably belongs in unsupported software, but I agree, it should be stickied.

Neddy Seagoon, could this post get stickied and moved if necessary, please?

Thanks,

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuck and moved as requested.

Moved from Kernel & Hardware to Unsupported Software.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, kind sir.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed - thanks!

Off to change my bms....
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