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notageek
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
No misunderstanding, just observing the bias in your viewpoint.
You are clearly in need of better observation powers. Is there a phpbb plugin you could use?
desultory wrote:
Congratulations, you have successfully identified union labor, point being what exactly?
That company under union labor make shitty cars. Example Rover.
desultory wrote:
Making X lines of substandard vehicles does not preclude making Y lines of higher quality vehicles, especially if those vehicles are effectively higher quality due to a relatively lower level of technical sophistication in certain areas.
Except, Rover did not make X or Y cars. They made Rovers. And we know what quality they were.
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desultory
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
desultory wrote:
No misunderstanding, just observing the bias in your viewpoint.
You are clearly in need of better observation powers. Is there a phpbb plugin you could use?
desultory wrote:
Congratulations, you have successfully identified union labor, point being what exactly?
That company under union labor make shitty cars. Example Rover.
desultory wrote:
Making X lines of substandard vehicles does not preclude making Y lines of higher quality vehicles, especially if those vehicles are effectively higher quality due to a relatively lower level of technical sophistication in certain areas.
Except, Rover did not make X or Y cars. They made Rovers. And we know what quality they were.
If you act quickly, you still have a chance. By the way, the company that now owns the Rover brand, you will be pleased to no end to note, is Indian.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah: shitty cars.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding auto manufacturing and Union labor, it is worth reading about NUMMI.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
If you act quickly, you still have a chance.
You need that chance more than me.
desultory wrote:
By the way, the company that now owns the Rover brand, you will be pleased to no end to note, is Indian.
But did you notice that the new owners stopped manufacturing them? It's in the OP that spawned this thread. I'd say, it's a testament to the wisdom of the new owners.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
But did you notice that the new owners stopped manufacturing them? It's in the OP that spawned this thread. I'd say, it's a testament to the wisdom of the new owners.
The replacement in no way resembles the cancelled vehicle. That choice has nothing to do with actual or perceived quality. It's a shift away from what made the brand desirable. If they were going to redesign the vehicle to be reliable and comparably functional, then that would be an indicator of cancelling the model due to quality issues.
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desultory
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
But did you notice that the new owners stopped manufacturing them? It's in the OP that spawned this thread. I'd say, it's a testament to the wisdom of the new owners.
Did you notice why the new owners ended production of that model? Hint: it had nothing to do with the quality of the vehicles, or their reliability.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
Did you notice why the new owners ended production of that model? Hint: it had nothing to do with the quality of the vehicles, or their reliability.
I'd be interested in hearing from you why you think the new owners killed off such a cash cow. Maybe because it wasn't able to sell it in markets where stricter emissions and safety considerations are required? Maybe because the last Defender sold in the US was in 1997?

But maybe, just maybe it was an unreliable piece of shit that made very little money for the new owners?

You'd be mistaken to believe that the new owners purposefully killed off a symbol of the Raj. I can understand why Rajists are sad but guess what, this is what it feels like to be owned.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why not just improve the quality? And if quality is the concern, why not cancel everything else? It's quite clear quality is not the issue.

It's a business decision to go after profits, and a redesign would have cost too much. Now the brand is without its icon.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tata needs to redesign them from the ground up to live up to Tata quality standards: must burst into flame if idling in traffic on hot day.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from you why you think the new owners killed off such a cash cow. Maybe because it wasn't able to sell it in markets where stricter emissions and safety considerations are required?
If you had been reading along with the rest of us, you would have noticed that the last straw was EU pedestrian crash safety standards, even Tata realized that to make if comply with them would have required quite possibly the most extreme case of 1970s bumper in vehicular history, thus providing the first documented evidence of Indians with restraint in adorning vehicles. Also, you might notice that emissions and safety regulations do not tend to confer improved reliability, in fact at least in earlier stages rather dramatically the opposite.
McGeekanot wrote:
Maybe because the last Defender sold in the US was in 1997?
While the U.S. is a major SUV market, it is hardly the only one, and sales there are trending toward "crossover" types more than body on frame types in most price ranges.
McGeekanot wrote:
But maybe, just maybe it was an unreliable piece of shit that made very little money for the new owners?

You'd be mistaken to believe that the new owners purposefully killed off a symbol of the Raj. I can understand why Rajists are sad but guess what, this is what it feels like to be owned.
Still with the loaded assertions...
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notageek
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, what? You mean the emissions and safety requirements being imposed on cars have an opposite effect on getting better cars on the road?

The example of US as a major market for SUVs. Europe, especially in Germany and France wouldn't consider (and never have) the Defender to be a good vehicle by any stretch of imagination. So, bassically you can't sell it in Europe, you can't sell it in US (and by default in Canada) and then you're left with which other markets really? Yeah, real cash cow this one was. Not.

The only people who like the Defender, a particularly shitty vehicle are people who look back at the colonial past and miss it. There isn't any other explanation for it. Especially if you've driven it.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. If you'd been reading along with the rest of us...
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desultory
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
Wait, what? You mean the emissions and safety requirements being imposed on cars have an opposite effect on getting better cars on the road?
As noted, at least in the short term it is a nearly universal phenomenon. Over longer timescales, it is often still the case.
McGeekanot wrote:
The only people who like the Defender, a particularly shitty vehicle are people who look back at the colonial past and miss it. There isn't any other explanation for it. Especially if you've driven it.
It is alright, you can tell us that you love the Defender, we will only publish it on the internet and nobody reads that anyway.

Bones McCracker wrote:
Yeah. If you'd been reading along with the rest of us...
Pretty much, yeah.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is more appropriate for you and your "friend."
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGeekanot wrote:
This is more appropriate for you and your "friend."
While it is very nice of you to offer free prostate exams, I will need to pass.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what it looked like when notageek crashed his motorcycle into a cow.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:
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cokey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignoring all the rest, why do they feel the need to pimp up cars these days? The Defender may not have been the most reliable vehicle but in a few hundred years there will still be about a million serviceable in Africa and more in Asia because they were impossible to destroy. This new piece of crap will probably rust after 2 weeks in a rainforest or fall apart after buried in glacial mud for a year
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
This new piece of crap will probably rust after 2 weeks in a rainforest or fall apart after buried in glacial mud for a year
It will never rust in a rain forest because it will never see a rain forest.

If they were going to redesign to improve reliability, etc., etc. I'd get it. But to give this thing the name is a joke. It has to be some kind of deep seeded hatred over the occupation. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sense.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deal with it.

You know very well, this is a vast improvement over its predecessor.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol: :lol: :lol:


And I will deal with it. I won't buy their products, and if I have the opportunity, I'll buy a real model.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must have a lot of money, that you'd go out of the way to buy a junk.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no intention of buying a junk.
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