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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: The Brexit could be as if the EU reformed Reply with quote

Interestingly since Corbyn is involved we in Germany discuss how a Britain kept not only in the customs union but also in the single market, could have his say in EU decision-making other and better than Norway nowadays.
Everyone in northern Europe is keen to have there a british vote in future decisions.

In essence such a very soft Brexit would result in something the Brits could have achieved when tried reforming the EU. They would have had big support in eastern Europe. The Polish where allied in the second world war, they recognized their early access of their work forces to the kingdom as a sign of old friendship. But instead it was simple class warfare of the conservative, which then was used to return to the old times of Empire.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: The Brexit could be as if the EU reformed Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:


In essence such a very soft Brexit would result in something the Brits could have achieved when tried reforming the EU. They would have had big support in eastern Europe. The Polish where allied in the second world war, they recognized their early access of their work forces to the kingdom as a sign of old friendship. But instead it was simple class warfare of the conservative, which then was used to return to the old times of Empire.
except time and time and time again the EU has shown it is unwilling to reform. The UK originally joined as part of a tradebloc, and that was what it was sold to the people as. It evolved and the evolution was agreed at gov'n not at citizen level (every time the people were directly asked, it was rejected: Ireland, France, Holland). Aspects of this design by committee were not ideal and every time change was pushed by the brits it was rejected.

Had the EU improved over the decades and shown its evolvement for the common good, Brexit probably would never have been on the table, BUT THE EU is incapable of change... The complete waste of money that is the Stasborgue embarrassment is a clear indication of this and every time there is an attempt to reform, the French veto...

Maybe Brexit, maybe Greece, maybe Italy, maybe the populous uprising is causing a wake up in Brussel and all I can say is too little too late. Now they are talking about reform, there still is ZERO change
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Morality124
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is change, but in the wrong direction:

European Parliament Moves Forward With 'Terrorist Content' Regulation That Will Lead To Massive Internet Censorship.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: The Brexit could be as if the EU reformed Reply with quote

Just seeing on France24-The-Debate - Mark Francois british MP says:
(not wordly) "This is no Brexit in what Corbyn wants, because with a customs union we cannot have our own trade deals." You can have your own trade deals as Turkey has within the customs union (food excluded). A minute later Corbyn is shown, saying he wants the customer, environment and work protections of the EU. Common market, not only the customs union.
How much missing brain is not there in the conservative english MPs ?

Naib wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

In essence such a very soft Brexit would result in something the Brits could have achieved when tried reforming the EU. They would have had big support in eastern Europe. The Polish where allied in the second world war, they recognized their early access of their work forces to the kingdom as a sign of old friendship. But instead it was simple class warfare of the conservative, which then was used to return to the old times of Empire.

except time and time and time again the EU has shown it is unwilling to reform. The UK originally joined as part of a tradebloc, and that was what it was sold to the people as. It evolved and the evolution was agreed at gov'n not at citizen level

Yes, to the level it is rejected in various countries, that I changed my mind:
progression in the last two decades was too fast.

Quote:
Aspects of this design by committee were not ideal and every time change was pushed by the brits it was rejected.
Yes, but if you don't like committees you end up with a parliament. Which in turn is a big step towards an european superstate. Which is liked by german people, because the brutal past. But other people in the east of me want to find their soul of a nation still, because they haven't had the time of more than one generation doing it.

Quote:
Had the EU improved over the decades and shown its evolvement for the common good, Brexit probably would never have been on the table, BUT THE EU is incapable of change.

The truth probably ist the other way round: The EU has changed too much too fast the last 2 decades. Question is: If our world around does change in fast pace, must we also?
The most difference between Athens and the Roman Empire was the kind of change: The greek voters changed every week and so did the fate of their town in peace and the next day war.
The Roman Empire of consensus is the model our war prone countries need. Less change, slow reform.

Quote:
The complete waste of money that is the Stasborgue embarrassment is a clear indication of this
Strassbourg is the finest city on this continent and with cousine. Think of it as a little extra for our EU MPs ... as long as corruption does not reach levels of Washington DC.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8O
you are aware EVERY SINGLE MONTH the EU parliament moves between Stasborge and Brussels. Why? to stroke the arrogance of the French. This is glut, this is waste AND the EU cannot even abolish this pointless, costly, timeconsuming task that does NOTHING to assist in the running of the EU

Quote:
It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France.


https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/15/di-maio-strasbourg-is-a-waste-of-money

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2019/news/scrap-strasbourg-seat-urges-italys-di-maio/

https://www.politico.eu/article/strasbourg-european-parliament-mep-single-seat-france/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Hxibk3qfuPk

https://www.newsr.in/n/Europe/1zkg35watn/Di-Maio-quot-Strasbourg-is-waste.htm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html


THE EU is incapable of change. Something gets put on the books, they won't admit their mistake to undo it THAT is what I am talking about by change and this is the pinnacle of waste.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
you are aware EVERY SINGLE MONTH the EU parliament moves between Stasborge and Brussels. Why? to stroke the arrogance of the French. This is glut, this is waste AND the EU cannot even abolish this pointless, costly, timeconsuming task that does NOTHING to assist in the running of the EU

Quote:
It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France.

My grandfather died in the war. And I met several old men who had russion led in their boddies until they died. I like this price tag we pay every week
very much!
And don't forget: War is just around the corner and will come the next moment we lough too long! And the english would like the cheaper australien hormone beef so much, they totally forget the next IRA bomb!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: value of conservatism Reply with quote

Now this podcast just recently blew my mind. As a progressive leftist I ever thought the latin roman republic ended because of missed reforms of the Gracchi brothers, but I got instructed of the value of conservatism here:

String theorist Sean Carroll learns about history:
Edward Watts on the End of the Roman Republic and Lessons for Democracy
(response to @Naib, why changing quickly can backfire)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corbyn seems determend to stop Theresa May in making the UK a new Singapore at the european shores utilizing Brexit.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Referendum - d-d-d-d-duh! Referendum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usRpUEtLSGo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
Referendum - d-d-d-d-duh! Referendum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usRpUEtLSGo

Such a chainsaw on thin ice ...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
patrix_neo wrote:
Referendum - d-d-d-d-duh! Referendum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usRpUEtLSGo

Such a chainsaw on thin ice ...


Lol. That's my boy...girl..uh...I don't know where to go from here.
I see no reference at all towards what I just tried to tell you as I have in mind so it must be a disturbance of the force...Anyways. Have a good life.
This is life without EU : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15evAadnq4I | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtCWX6HxbC0
Savage!

EDIT: Found the 'ultimate' response : https://youtu.be/mtCWX6HxbC0?t=141
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do this to another ethnicity plz :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QWhmdjiyAY
EU ftw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
April 9th 2019
Britain still part of Europe.


It's almost as if their perceived EU failure is merely a projection of their own complete political failure
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
notageek wrote:
April 9th 2019
Britain still part of Europe.


It's almost as if their perceived EU failure is merely a projection of their own complete political failure


I think it's fair to say that both the EU (article 11/13/17, "Terrorist Content Regulation") and the current UK government are political failures. But I would say the EU's shenanigans have greater global implications than any stupidity the UK is currently doing.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morality124 wrote:
zixnub wrote:
notageek wrote:
April 9th 2019
Britain still part of Europe.


It's almost as if their perceived EU failure is merely a projection of their own complete political failure


I think it's fair to say that both the EU (article 11/13/17, "Terrorist Content Regulation") and the current UK government are political failures. But I would say the EU's shenanigans have greater global implications than any stupidity the UK is currently doing.


Are the people in power prevailing? You know, their priorities are the ones being implemented and followed. If so, what's the problem?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting footnote: if the UK gov had simply abstained (or voted against), the directive containing the infamous article 11/13/17 would not have passed. Britain represents enough population to form a blocking minority.

However, the British government voted in favour.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
patrix_neo wrote:
Referendum - d-d-d-d-duh! Referendum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usRpUEtLSGo

Such a chainsaw on thin ice ...
surely he likes to swim a lot. i understand that guy.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Change UK - The independent Group Reply with quote

Must see: Anouncenment to push a remain referendum in the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfgavpF2a8

To me old german guy these people rightly speak from my heart. From what I heard about the UK the last years, I had lost any hope there would exist a rational mind in the UK. But these people from the first word they speak to the last is the most human I have heard from behind the north sea. Yes, we had some english journalists in german TV discussing Brexit. But they live on the continent and therefore they just could understand their own country men not better than the german audience. And we see politicians in Europe rolling their eyes when meeting british counter parts, because they hold back to the level of psychiatric communication.

But will there be any voting in the coming european elections for
https://theindependent.group/
?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to his poll the votes lost by conservatives will go to BP....
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good news, the best PM we've never actually had is back
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

linky
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since apparently the odds that the brexit will be reitred after a second likely referendum are at their highest point you might want to give a look to the program of the successor of Junker as president of the EU commission instead:

https://manfredweber.eu/the-future-of-we/

;-)
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Since apparently the odds that the brexit will be reitred after a second likely referendum


There won't be a second referendum on EU membership - if there is it'd expose the exact nature of democracy and have to at least keep the veneer of said democracy in place.

What will probably happen is that there'll be a referendum on the nature of departure, or we'll just slide into a withdraw in name only.
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:

or we'll just slide into a withdraw in name only.

That's impossible.
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
John-Boy wrote:

or we'll just slide into a withdraw in name only.

That's impossible.


No so, you agree to brexit then also agree with the EU extremely lax terms for said departure.

The EU would accept that, especially if it's favorable to the EU.

It's also the kind of slimy maneuver that I'd expect from Labour/Lib Dems (although the later wants to cancel outright)
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